Welcome to the Conspiracy

[00:00:01] Speaker A: Want more of Sean and Harrigan? You can find Sean at YouTube.com PGShawn where he streams every Saturday at 8am Central Time. You can find more of Harrigan's RPG musings at harriganshearth.substack.com Links in the show notes [00:00:23] Speaker B: Strap in operatives. This is go bag your all access pass to modern day RPGs loaded with bullets, backstories and a whole lot of bad decisions. And here are your mission leaders. Sean and Harrigan. [00:00:40] Speaker A: Harrigan, we're back. Season Season 2. [00:00:46] Speaker B: I was trying to do it with you, man. You were going to do it together. [00:00:49] Speaker A: Two, two. Okay. On two. One, two, two. No, two. Anyways, how are you? [00:00:58] Speaker B: We're back. I'm good, I'm good. How are you doing? [00:01:01] Speaker A: Doing all right. Doing all right. It's good to be back on the mics after a. A hiatus. [00:01:08] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. Very elegant start to season two, I have to say. But but hey, we did not plan that out. Yeah. And I would also say back on my regular mic, back in my home office, not traveling anymore. So all that's good. A couple weeks off. All good. [00:01:24] Speaker A: What have you been up to in the world of COVID action? [00:01:30] Speaker B: Two things that I think are sort of in the, you know, the orbits around this stuff. One is that I've been obsessing lately and I think I even told you like in fact it may have been our last show I mentioned I'd seen the documentary that was about like follow the fall of France and the second World War and then the after D Day, the liberation of France and like all the things that happened sort of after that. Right. Including a whole bunch of espionage related things. I've been. So I watched a special on that and I've been kind of obsessing about like commando action during the Second World War, etc. So I've been just reading, watching YouTube videos, just kind of digging deep on in that stuff and somewhere I haven't figured out where it's going to surface yet. Whether it's our Thursday night group or a con game that I run or a play by post game. I'm going to run some like 1940, 41 British commando in France type action somewhere that's gonna happen. So Sean's making some gestures that indicates he approves for those who are listening and not watching. So that's one thing I've been sort of just digging into all that stuff. Nothing to report on it yet, but just sort of soaking in that stuff right now. And then the other thing, while I Haven't been consuming a lot of media or you know, movies, books, etc. I did play in a Genghis Khan which is a Colorado based con been running for, I forget, 30 or 40 years. It's a long Bond running con. I played in a, get this, Women of Bond role playing game. This is run by a really great GM who runs many different games at that con every year and he's got several series that he runs kind of over and over again. So the Bond games that he runs go back I think years and cover multiple systems. So he used to run it Savage Worlds. He switches to something else. He is now running it in his own homebrew 2d20. I think I've mentioned this before on the show that when I met Dan, frequently frequent writer inner of the show, it was at Bob's Space 1999 game. So Dan and I both got to the table to play Women of Bond and it was pretty cool. It's pretty fun. I will say this, Bob the GM, Bob takes a different tact on 2D20 than I would. He likes the Actun Cthulhu, the crunchier 2D20 that includes the action dice or whatever they're called, the D6s in addition to the D20s etc. So it's not the implementation that I would go for. I would have skinned it down substantially. But it was still very fun to play espionage games with a 2D20 mechanic where you're generating momentum and you're given the. You're given the gm. I forget if he called it Doom or what he called it, but trouble of some kind, something like that. That's it. Mainly I've been kind of, you know, trying to get one thing off the ground and then played in a pretty, a pretty. A pretty fun Bond game that had a unique angle I guess with the. Basically all of the different sidekicks, female sidekicks Bond has had over the years. Those are the characters you choose from. So Bob had them all kind of arrayed. So pretty funny. What about you? What have you been up to in terms of spy stuff? [00:04:28] Speaker A: First of all, I want to say that's pretty kick ass. I, I would, I would. Oh, I want to sign up for that game. [00:04:36] Speaker B: Yeah. Oh yeah. [00:04:37] Speaker A: Who did you play? [00:04:39] Speaker B: I played Domino, dude. The woman, the Italian woman from Thunderball. Oh yeah. Oh yeah, yeah. So it's pretty, it's pretty fun, right? There's this array including you get into the 80s and you get into the like, you know, and 90s like Denise Richards or that kind of thing. I forget what her character was. But it's like, I am. I'm not going to play Christmas Jones. I think her name. [00:05:00] Speaker A: Yes, that's right. Christmas Jones. Mayday. Mayday, I think was Grace Jones, right? [00:05:05] Speaker B: Yeah. Mayday wasn't on offer, but I think Bob had had 20 characters or something. Solitaire was there. Honey Rider, Honey Child Rider, however you want to, you know, like, it was pretty funny. [00:05:16] Speaker A: That's pretty awesome. [00:05:17] Speaker B: Pretty funny, Yep. It was pretty good. It was basically a European country during like Mardi Gras. And Bob had researched all these rituals and whatnot that they. That the actual country goes through, including like dropping the girl from Hop On High into the. Into the courtyard. And the cardinal has to come out at the right time. And we were trying to figure out. Figure out who was trying to be assassinated. So it was like a one big set piece that we were. That the. That the team had to figure out who has what exit covered and when they. When the action all went down. This is pretty. [00:05:48] Speaker A: You know what? [00:05:48] Speaker B: I hate to go on too long, but this is pretty funny. When it went down, Bob's whole angle was trying to identify the assassin. Who is this female? I forget who was it? Scaramanga's daughter. So the man with a golden gun, his daughter is the assassin. And the way that she slips into the crowd is that she's brought with her all these female goons. And all the goons have different color jumpsuits on. And you can't tell, like she has like tear away clothes. So she's like, whoosh. Now she's in a gold jumpsuit. Whoosh. Now she's in a blue jumpsuit and she gets mixed up with all the other girls kind of thing. So it was. It was, you know, it was light hearted, let's put it that way. But yeah, it was. It was a fun time. I would definitely go for a lighter implementation of 2D20, but it was still a raucous good time. It's good stuff. All right, over to you for real now. [00:06:37] Speaker A: Mine has not. I mean, other than my every other week Delta Green game, I have make. I made a trip to Noble Knight to pick up a few things, if you will, to include a couple spy craft, three Spycraft items. I think I got the gentleman's agreement, which is a supplement with four cereals. So in Spycraft, a scenario is called a cereal and there's four serials in it. They can all be solo or interlinked. And so I was reading that, I just picked it up. I had it before and again, maybe recouping some of my spycraft library. [00:07:15] Speaker B: I'm just gonna say you're rebuilding. Huh. [00:07:18] Speaker A: I don't know. Some of those got pretty pricey. Like I think there's one with. I think it's the organization one with all the organizations that's like 70 bucks. So there's a couple. It's just like a Star wars, like [00:07:31] Speaker B: big, thick, hard carvers kind of thing. [00:07:33] Speaker A: They aren't thick spycraft, but I think people pick up those because I think they're just less in the market. [00:07:42] Speaker B: Oh, you're talking about out of print stuff that's just. Yeah, the price is up. [00:07:45] Speaker A: The price is up. But like the, the items I picked up was like the GM screen, the general gentleman's agreement I think I picked up. Shoot. Another one that I cannot remember. But you know, they were like eight bucks. So those weren't expensive. But like there's a couple in the collection that are like, you know, 75. And I'm like, I don't know, maybe down the road. And then of course they have class books which I. I haven't delved into because I think if I get. If I do spy craft, I'll just keep it to the core book. Anyways. The other ones that I picked up, one was, well, this one that I have at my. This. Oh yeah, Beast, which is the Delta Green Countdown book, which I did not know was like, what is this? [00:08:34] Speaker B: 400 pages, big old soft cover. [00:08:36] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, big old soft cover. Like almost original first printing, I think of it. And it wasn't that bad probably because I think they're going to reprint this or take a lot of the material. But I thought this is my first Pagan Publishing book that I've ever purchased. [00:08:55] Speaker B: I don't think I have any. And that's pertinent to our discussion today too. [00:08:58] Speaker A: It is, yeah. But other than that, nothing off the top of my head that. [00:09:04] Speaker B: So, so quick question on the spycraft stuff. Is it 1E or 2E that you're going for? [00:09:09] Speaker A: 20. [00:09:10] Speaker B: Okay. [00:09:10] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:09:11] Speaker B: Cool. And did 1E have a solo mode? I heard you mention they could be run solo. [00:09:15] Speaker A: Did not know, but we never mentioned that during MSP or. Yeah, mspe. [00:09:22] Speaker B: Well, hold that thought. I want to ask a question about. Or I want to. I want to clarify something. When I say solo, I mean one player and one gm. I'm not talking about the solitaire mode that people play today, which is much more, you know, sit down yourself with the book. Which is. Which is to link your MSPE thing. That's what tunnels And Trolls was so good at was putting out materials for a single player to sit down. You know what? I don't know the answer to this. I don't know if MSPE went down the same path of producing tons of materials for true solo play. I don't know the answer to that. [00:09:54] Speaker A: I didn't see any when we looked through it, but it had been brought up. Anthony, friend of the show runeslinger Casting Shadows show, had sent Harrigan and I a link to another podcast that was starting to talk about COVID action RPGs. And in that, they actually brought up mercenary spies and private eyes and. And whether it would do solo play because it's based on tunnels and trolls, which just hence this comment. But, yeah. [00:10:23] Speaker B: So when you say the scenario book you. You bought for Bycraft would support solo play, what did you mean? One player, one GM or true single player? [00:10:33] Speaker A: Did I say solo play? I didn't mean solo play. [00:10:36] Speaker B: I think you did. That means this whole station is not. [00:10:40] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:10:42] Speaker B: Okay. It's not. So. All right, that's. [00:10:44] Speaker A: Let's move on from a single book with four serials that could be played with all of them inter. You know, or you could play each one as a single adventure. [00:11:01] Speaker B: That's. I misheard. [00:11:02] Speaker A: Where I might have said you could play it as a solo adventure, which you would take as a. Oh, I can play it as a single person. [00:11:09] Speaker B: Okay. Yeah. In which case you misspoke. [00:11:11] Speaker A: Yeah. Tomato, tomatoes. Tomato, tomato. [00:11:16] Speaker B: Yes. Okay, I get it. I get it. Yeah. But look, I'm interested to see you die. You might. And I mentioned this on the show before. I didn't hate that game. Like, I remember being like, D20 and then, like, all right, there's actually some cool spy stuff in here, and I wish I had not sold my book, but we'll have to let you report on all that stuff as you rebuild the entire library. Yeah. [00:11:38] Speaker A: I don't know if I'll go that crazy, but, yeah, I think spycraft is on the docket. It's probably. I mean, it's one of the ones that. I think if I laid it down on a table with people that haven't played covert action RPGs, they'd be able to grok because it's all D20 stuff. [00:11:52] Speaker B: Yeah. Yep. So I have a question for you. [00:11:55] Speaker A: Yes, sir. [00:11:55] Speaker B: Do you want to get into what season two is about and what we're covering today before we do sitrep and encrypted comms? Or after, when we get into the mission brief? When do you want to Cover that. [00:12:07] Speaker A: If it coincides with the mission brief, then I'd say go to the mission brief or do it before the mission brief. [00:12:13] Speaker B: Tell you what, let's get right. Let's go to sitrep and encrypted comms and if it comes up, we better cover it. The only thing I'm thinking about is if there's something in those areas where there's a presumption about what, you know, what we're going to talk about whatnot. And spoiler. I think we've already said this before. We're going to get into some Delta green but we'll give some more detail about that at the top of the mission brief, I guess. [00:12:33] Speaker A: Yeah, that would be good. Sitrep, you can play the intro. We don't have any this week. Unless you have something. Do you have anything? [00:12:41] Speaker B: No. Brand new season, getting our heads screwed on straight. You know what, I'll. I'll make a little bit of linkage. Now this is what I why I was thinking we might want to introduce the topic. We will be doing less of general espionage and may even that may even extend to the media that Sean and I consume and the games we play kind of otherwise. So expect to see fewer reviews and I don't know, the general espionage stuff is going to take a bit of a backseat to the specialized topic that we're about to get into. Now having said that, I think there are some things that we'll be dropping into sitrep that are more directly related to some of the Delta green topics. So I think we will be filling this bucket eventually. But as of today, brand new season, nice and shiny. There's nothing in there. [00:13:24] Speaker A: Right? Encrypted comms is for the write ins and things of that nature which we'll get into. But if there's a link that you think that we should know about, by all means send it to us and say hey, you guys should probably we feature. This would be really good. And coincide with the show and the subject matter. By all means. Which is a good segue into encrypted comms. Sir, we have an incoming encrypted transmission. So encrypted comms is the element segment of the show where we take in emails, voicemails from you about COVID action things and what's going on. You can call in at 929 Big Dice or you can go to our website and submit something there through a form or if you'd like just to fire up your email client of choice and just throw us a Grenade by addressing it@grarden gobagpod.com you know, 929 Big [00:14:24] Speaker B: Dice sounds like something different entirely. I haven't really put two and two together on that before, but hey, it's [00:14:33] Speaker A: one I could find that worked. [00:14:35] Speaker B: Understood. Yeah, let's, let's. I think we got two right? [00:14:39] Speaker A: It appears the first one. Yeah, sure. [00:14:40] Speaker B: I'll do the second one for obvious reasons. [00:14:42] Speaker A: Yeah. First one writes in by Mark Mark 2M. You will be known. Fourth code name 2M. Mark. I don't know, is it Mickey's or Mekis? [00:14:57] Speaker B: I would say probably, but who knows Cops. Yeah. [00:15:02] Speaker A: Write in and tell us how we're messing up your name. He says. Where have you guys been all my life? Right here, Mark. I'm a long time espionage role playing game fan and I thought I was the only one. You're not alone, buddy. It is a cert. It is certainly a tough genre to find like minded people for. I started gaming way back with the original James Bond rpg. Since then I've been through. Yeah, delicious. [00:15:32] Speaker B: Go on. [00:15:33] Speaker A: Since then I've been through several versions of Top Secret and I own most of the Spycraft series, both editions. I've also written my own espionage RPG called Steam Spies about steampunk corporate espionage. If you can give me an email, I'll be happy to send you a PDF. I'm also a co host of the RPG podcast Tabletop Radio Hour. So go check out his show there where I and drag the other guys into spy adventures. You know what? Nothing like dragging them right into what you love. I find I like to do that with my game groups. Bop them over the head. You're easier to play this because I want to. [00:16:16] Speaker B: Anyways, keep reading because this gets interesting. [00:16:18] Speaker A: It does, it does. He says. Where I often drag the other guys into spy adventures. On the show I ran a short run of the game Cold Shadows. [00:16:26] Speaker B: Hey O. [00:16:27] Speaker A: Where the author of the game jumped in as a player. Who is Alan Barr, the same guy that wrote Tiny Spies, which we are familiar with. That was a bit intimidating. More recently I ran a campaign of my current favorite spy game Outgunned. Hopefully you can add that game to a review at some point. I'm still working my way through your archives, but I'm loving the vibe and the feel of what you guys are doing. I'm really, really looking forward to hearing more. [00:16:56] Speaker B: Awesome letter. [00:16:57] Speaker A: Yeah, thanks so much for writing it and letting us know Mark, that we are not alone in this espionage covert action RPG fans. You're not alone out there. [00:17:10] Speaker B: Yeah, we're not just screaming into the void. This is good, right? Someone heard us. That's right. [00:17:17] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:17:17] Speaker B: It really and I will check out his podcast and really curious about the whole Cold Shadows but he's. He's got wide ranging like Bond Spycraft, Cold Shadows, Outgunned now. Yeah, he's. [00:17:31] Speaker A: He's in it and a podcast dragging players into it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:17:37] Speaker B: Very good, Mark. [00:17:38] Speaker A: My question to Mark would be, Mark, where you been all my life? [00:17:41] Speaker B: That's right. That's right. We're few and far between the die hards around this stuff. Tight two two. I think this is a good, maybe a good place to put a little emphasis on something. Sean, to his point about I hope you cover outgunned at some point. We're well aware in season one we've covered five games, right. And in through season one I think we discovered there are a lot of espionage games and covert action games, like a whole lot as people, we dug them up, people pitched them at us, you know, went through our hard drives. I'm like, oh, I forgot about this game entirely kind of thing. Right. There's just tons of stuff out there. We will return to that format of diving deeper on different types of games, but this season isn't going to be for that. So if you have a specific game that you want us to cover, by all means, write in but just be prepared to wait a little bit. You can probably tell from the timing of this our seasons are not necessarily going to be all that long and we don't even necessarily take a giant break between them. I think we took two or three weeks off between seasons this time, so there's not going to be a long wait. But be aware that we're not going to cover Outgunned next week is I guess what I'm getting at that Fair. [00:18:48] Speaker A: That's fair. [00:18:50] Speaker B: Anything else you want to address here on Mark's email? [00:18:52] Speaker A: No, I don't think so and no, no, not necessary on the PDF piece. We've had some other folks that have offered like hey, I did this one game and I would much just rather buy it honestly and support if it's something of interest. So no worries on the PDF but very gracious of an offer, I will say. Thank you. [00:19:11] Speaker B: Absolutely. [00:19:13] Speaker A: You want to go to the next one, sir? [00:19:17] Speaker B: Yeah, I dropped this in here right before the show. As you saw. As you. You maybe haven't seen even. Even seen yet. [00:19:23] Speaker A: I did notice it was not in there prior to us firing up the mics. [00:19:28] Speaker B: So Harrigan writes in this is me, me Writing the show. [00:19:33] Speaker A: You're gonna read your own. I sh. [00:19:35] Speaker B: Okay, I am. I am. So this is just my dumb way of introducing something we talked about at the end of last season, which was we have this checklist of like quote unquote requirements or things we want to see in a solid rp. A solid espionage covert action game. Right. And we. After playing through and reviewing five different games, I think there was some recognition that maybe that needs a bit of a fine tuning. A review, a tune up. So I'm using our encrypted comms to do that. Sean, I'm injecting this content from the side. [00:20:10] Speaker A: Adapt and overcome, I suppose. [00:20:13] Speaker B: Are you okay? If we run through a checklist, I think we can make it relatively quick. [00:20:17] Speaker A: If I said no, would that change anything? [00:20:19] Speaker B: It wouldn't, except you could just edit it out and I want to know if I'm going to be edited. [00:20:23] Speaker A: That's fine. Let's roll. [00:20:26] Speaker B: I've dropped double text in so you can weigh in as well. But I'll run through it relatively quickly. This is that many item checklist, which I will tell you right now, one of the ways I look at it, it's no longer like a requirements checklist. It's more like a things I'd like to see because I think we already proved out we can do it without a lot of these things and just. And have lots of fun at the table. All right. And the other, the other divider I think we came to last season, or the other realization is that really I break it into. There's two modes of play around this stuff. There's the cinematic stuff and there's the realistic stuff. We described it varyingly as like Cold War versus high octane, over the top, it's Mission Impossible versus, you know, Tinker Taylor, soldier, spy. It's that sort of thing. So some of these items relate to one or the other. They're not the same. So are the spies competent? Do I still think this is a requirement? I'm going to say yes. Yep. And I've also said, at least for cinematic play, I think you could really have someone who's a much more realistic character and have a fun game. If you're doing the Cold War East Germany thing, for sure. Do I still want to see Tradecraft in the game? I think yes. It's got to be there. Right. In terms of a system that handles bugging and listening devices and all that kind of stuff. Same thing is true for chases, tales and vehicle combat. I still want to see that same thing. Is true for the social systems that we've talked about for interrogation, persuasion, deception, seduction, et cetera. And finally for infiltration and security systems, hacking, et cetera. I think it's great if these systems do have at least a nod of some kind, even if it's just a set of skills around it and not a whole subsystem sort of thing. One of the first places I think I changed my mind on this, Sean, is the multi part challenges. And I only say that this is where we were thinking like along the lines of like top secret where someone is surveilling the building, someone else has broken in and is like adjusting the elevator so they can control the elevator, someone else is in a tuxedo in the Gallup. They're all working towards the same aim of breaking in and getting the documents or kidnapping the person. And it's like a multi part challenge that everyone can roll their dice for. Now we played mainly one on one with a couple of games where we played together. Right. But I would say that I don't think these games need multi part challenges. There are ways that all these systems have where you can, you can play up those types of scenes without having a formal multi part challenge. So what? So I say we take it off the list. But what, what is your take on that? [00:22:58] Speaker A: I agree. I think it's nice to have, but I don't think it's a requirement. [00:23:02] Speaker B: Yeah, okay. All right, so powering through here, gadgets and gadgets and vehicles are two things that I think we still want to see in these games. And here's one that the next one is actually kind of a critical one that not every game had. And I think there's a set of these. Excuse me, there's a set of these where I think if the game doesn't have it, I'm going to bolt something on if I'm going to play it over the long term. And the first one around that is around reputation, recognition and fame. I really like those systems, like Bond for example, where you're making a roll to see does the opposition know who you are sort of thing. And Agent Provocateur had a great take on that where as you built it up, you're eventually going to get retired if you build up too much. And some of the missions are around bringing it back. Bond did something similar, but a couple of the games didn't have anything at all around that like Tiny Spies and mspe, I don't think had any nod towards fame and recognition. What do you think? [00:23:59] Speaker A: No, I Don't think. I don't recall them either. One of those. I thought when you put ts in there, it was top secret. [00:24:05] Speaker B: But top secret has something around it, [00:24:07] Speaker A: I think a little bit. [00:24:08] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I meant tiny spies. [00:24:11] Speaker A: I mean, part of it is. Yes, I could see that happening. It is interesting to understand the dynamics of a what if my cover is blown kind of thing even in Cold War era. Like there's always the risk of somebody finding out you are an agent of a covert, you know, an agency of. Of espionage. And that's bad. Like espionage is bad news, man. You do not want to get caught doing espionage in the real world. But I also think, does it need to be as highlighted as it is in some of the games? I don't know. I'm still on the fence with that. It's nice to have to me. And I think it does facilitate Bond or people recognizing Bond. And every time, every once in a while in the movies, they'll be like, oh, Mr. Bond, we know who you are. But at the same time, I also think, you know, if it's Smiley in East Berlin, it could play a role, but I don't know how important it is. [00:25:14] Speaker B: You know, part of it is what you're doing at the table. Like a fro. Like an outgun, one shot, for example, you don't need it. You don't need this mechanic. Right, right. Yeah. Anytime you're just kind of playing shooting from the hip sort of thing. But if you're playing the long game, even a cinematic long game, I want this on the list personally. And like I said, I will, I'll develop the mechanics. If I'm running a game that doesn't have them and it's a spy game, I'll develop them. And the other side of that and the Cold War side, the realistic side, that's kind of what the game is about, is not getting your cover blown, is not getting made. So it's super important. [00:25:50] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:25:50] Speaker B: And may actually be systemized more than just having a reputation score. There may be clocks, there may be progress bars that are tracked throughout the system saying suspicion levels from your boss and all that sort of stuff. [00:26:01] Speaker A: I am convinced you're right. [00:26:04] Speaker B: Well, I mean, none of these are required, I think, as we established at the top, but I think this one's pretty important on both sides of the coin if you're going to play the long game, is what I would say. Easy bake enemies. I love easy bake enemies and I want them in these games. But I will also figure out A way to develop them if the system doesn't do it. I think Gabe did something like that for mspe, for example. I don't know. What's your take? [00:26:26] Speaker A: Yes, I would want them. They. I guess the question I have for you as we go down this list is how much do you say yes, I want to see them? It's a ding if they don't have them versus yes, they don't have them, but I'll make them up. [00:26:42] Speaker B: It depends kind of on the system. Most. Most systems I think are generally pretty easy to. Instead of a whole mini character sheet for an NPC for the GM to look at it and kind of suss out what are the numbers that I need. I need these three numbers and I can represent the. So you're right, it's not a big ding, but it's. This is like the last one with Reputation. This is when we're like, I'm going to do this if the game doesn't do it already. I'm going to figure out a way to have a shorthand for the NPC so that when they run into the hotel security guard and they have to fist fight him because they want to get to the basement, you need that without having to look up. What does security guard be? You need the ability to just say it's. You know, he's about these levels. And this is where some system lend themselves really well towards that. Like tiny, tiny spies, for example. Guy has two hit points and that's all you need. That's literally all you need. You know, it's important to me and not all the games do it. That flows into the next one as well, which is this like mob or rabble rules where if you want the spies to look good, they need the ability to like take down more than one person in a round sort of thing. This is one of those ones where there's a dividing line between cinematic play and cold war play. Cold War realistic play doesn't need this at all. You run into one or two East German thugs in the corridor, you're in trouble. Right. You're not going to be taking those guys out by the handful versus, you know, the much more high flying action where you can take out three guys in one turn type of thing. [00:28:06] Speaker A: The Bond going into the evil lair with all the same guys wearing the same color jumpsuits. [00:28:13] Speaker B: Yep. And you can machine gun 10 of them at the same time and they all fall down. With no blood effect, by the way too. Yes. Sterling machine gun or submachine gun. Yeah, that Kind of thing that was tied more to like the mode of play. I guess you do not need those rules. I really appreciate though when we played Agent Provocateur that there are certain games that make that account for the fact that the higher end spies, the fact you can shoot twice and all that sort of stuff. You can be kind of a badass in those games still, even though you're playing a bit more of a grounded kind of game. Rules for assisting. It's one of those things where like yes, I want every game to have that. But again not that hard to develop on your own. You know, you get a plus one or a plus ten or whatever if someone's helping you. Let's talk about metacurrency for a minute. So we had. We had better currency as like on this list where I want metacurrency in these games and we can talk about both player metacurrency and GM metacurrency. What are your thoughts on whether they are required for these games to be fun? [00:29:13] Speaker A: Well, I do have an appreciation as a game master trying to get the big bad out of a pinch and ruining my campaign. The Blofeld reoccurrence may not be as feasible if there were not a metacurrency to flip onto the table. I guess. So I do have a better appreciation of it. You're welcome, Gabe Gibbing. I also think it could be necessary depending on the system where if the system is less forgiving, a meta currency may be helpful in a pinch. So it may not have to be plethora of Benny's galore to do something. But it might be nice to in that one thing do or die to be able to add something to it. [00:30:01] Speaker B: Yeah, it's fascinating to me actually I prefer metacurrencies on both sides here. That's my general take. But it does depend on the system. Think about this because many people will say where's the tension in the die roll? If you had metacurrency, that can either be an auto whatever recall is it Vincent Drake. Is that your guy? You need to ask like recall in Tiny Spies. [00:30:25] Speaker A: He's a double O dude. [00:30:27] Speaker B: He is now recall in Tiny Spies when the contesta gets gunned down in her car and he comes upon her later and he has to make that roll to get to the hospital to save her and he failed and she died. You know there's some tension in those roles when you don't have a. A Benny or a fate point or a whatever you can pull out. Now having said that, I still I still think it's because. Especially for the more high end action where the spies are supposed to be super competent kind of thing. On the flip side of that though, Sean, we played a couple of games that had zero metacurrency in the player side and I didn't miss it. And. And I thought I had a great time. Both Tiny Spies and MSPE lack metacurrency, if I'm remembering right. Right, Correct. So you can do it. It's not necessary. It's preferred, but it's not necessary on the GM side. I do not want to have to spend metacurrency for every little thing in a scene. And I want to. I don't want to be doing the whole like another, another thug arrives, I'm spending a point of my doom or whatever. I don't want to do that. I really like the James Bond take and the Agent Provocateur take which is the use the. The geometa currency to keep the villain going. Not the thugs, not the. And not, not to complicate a scene but to have that like just, you know, that reserve of you haven't quite got this guy yet players. Right. And I've got a metacurrency around that you can play without it, no problem at all. But it is kind of cool. It is kind of cool. The next one I have is failing Forward. I'm just going to strike that one because I think what we've discovered. None of these games have a full on failing forward sort of set of mechanics. So if you fail a good write up on how the GM can keep the action moving. This one quite frankly is just down to the GM understanding how these games should flow. Bolt something on, do it in the moment. I'm going to strike that one if you're okay with it. [00:32:16] Speaker A: Sure. [00:32:17] Speaker B: I'm glad you feel so strongly about that. All right. I. Then I know I'm getting, I'm getting used to it. Sure. Yeah, that's a good idea. I had some things around how engaging are both the. The firearm rules and the hand to hand rules. And I'm going to stick to my guns on those and say yeah, I. I want engaging firearm rules and I want engaging hand to hand rules. [00:32:43] Speaker A: Says the gun guy. [00:32:45] Speaker B: Well, you mean not just guns. Here's one of the ones we didn't talk about much and I think it may have either slipped off the list or we didn't talk about it all the time. But when I, when I went through and I like dug up this list and refreshed it do these games have consequences other than death? So lots of more, you know, if you bend games more towards either the story game angle or the less traditional angle, there's lots of. You were taken, quote, unquote, you were taken out in the scene like you would do in fate, right? Taken out might mean you're unconscious, might mean you're just too far away. You just can't act on something, or it might mean that you're killed. And some of those things are a conversation between the player and the GM in different games. But at the beginning of this show, I had put this down as a, hey, I'd like to see if the agent is taken out. What does it mean? Are they dead every time? If you play White Lies, for example, which is an OD and D hack, like a white box hack, when you hit zero hit points, you're dead. And that's all there is to it. Having played five of these games, I don't think any of them have formal rules that are around being taken out versus being killed. So I don't know. Again, if we need. You need that rule versus, you know, just some. Some session, zero discussion around. What does it mean? And are you guys okay if your agents are just taken out flat, or do we need some ability to make some other things happen? You know, whether it's lasting injuries or ruined relationships or blown covers, those sorts of things can all be just as impactful in a game like this. But what's your. What's your take on this? We haven't talked about this that much. [00:34:21] Speaker A: The question would be, what are the other options? So if you retired a character, would they be able to still contribute to. To a potential mission if they are injured? Can you still be a competent agent with a, you know, with. With no leg? Which one would say yes, but you would be distinguished. It's hard to be undercover if. Well, I mean, you could obviously hide your prosthetic and nobody would know, but it is something that could be a hindrance. So to that point, yes, I think there could be other. It would be a session, zero discussion. Would I need it as a requirement? [00:35:04] Speaker B: No, it's not a requirement. I don't think we've seen a single game yet, though, do this. Well, and a couple of things you just mentioned are why I want it. The fact that you can lose a limb, you can get a facial scar. Like, there's so many things that could happen that complicate and enrich and play as you go forward in a campaign setting. The, like, the callbacks to Remember when this happened kind of thing. And I don't know if you've seen this or not. Sean, when I forget, were you in. Yeah. You were in Mirko's Outgun B team game, right? [00:35:34] Speaker A: The B team, yes game. [00:35:36] Speaker B: So in that game, I don't think, you know, it's a one shot. I don't think we explored all the mechanics. Right. There's a mechanic in Outgun that I just adore which is called experiences. And it has to do with something like memorable happening to your character in a session five sessions later. And you write it on your sheet and kind of like what it means, like why how you could draw upon that experience. Five sessions later you can look at your sheet and say, you know, remember that time when I was trapped in the pit with the snakes and I overcame my fear and you can call back to it and get a bonus on the current role. It is Chef's Kiss game design. It's really cool stuff that more games you frankly use. It's. It's kind of a version of this as well where there's just. I like some system where you can kind of pull out like some monumental things that have happened beyond. I hit zero hit points. Remember that time when I hit minus one hit point and I still, I made the saving throw. No one's gonna remember that. If there are some other things where it's like, remember my ear was taken off. Right. Those sorts of things are. They just, they make for better play in my, in my opinion. But I don't think we're going to run across espionage games that go deeply into this. All right. We've taken too much time already. The last one I think is kind of a no brainer where it's like, is there adventure or mission design frameworks or advice in the books and yeah, I'd like to see that. I guess the only thing I would say is it's awfully easy to steal those frameworks from other places because many of them are like mission design tables and organizations and that kind of thing. And it's pretty easy to make those system agnostic and port them from one to the other. So this, this, this jackass is done with this call. Sean, there is right in. So we can move on. [00:37:17] Speaker A: It was a good, it was a good writing. I wish she would do it more often. [00:37:23] Speaker B: So I'll, I will refresh this list. I don't think we're going to do a lot with this list until we get into season three for reasons that maybe you're about to Describe. [00:37:33] Speaker A: I'd agree. Let's get into the mission brief. [00:37:35] Speaker B: Have a seat. Let's get on with the mission brief. [00:37:39] Speaker A: All right. Season two premiere. We hinted at at this in the season finale of season one and we had gotten feedback. We appreciate all that feedback. Thank you very much for everybody that has chimed in. Some of you that have chimed in are probably not even listening to this right now, but nonetheless wanted to still extend my gratitude for the feedback. So we are delving into Delta Green for season two. So it's going to be pretty Delta Green intensive. For those of you that are not fans of Delta Green, this may be a put off for you. However, I would maybe ask for a little bit of leniency as we explore the game because there is covert action in it, there's tradecraft in it, it has some interesting takes and frankly, if you've played it and you know all about it and it's just not your jam, totally understand. But I also think that there may be elements of those that may be in the spycraft genre or espionage genre that maybe haven't been exposed to Delta Green to the point where it may be interesting if you just knew a little bit more about the game. [00:38:54] Speaker B: Yes, to that point, Sean, and we'll talk about this. I think this episode we're going to get into kind of the background and the origins and the just overall what is Delta Green and listeners can picture going forward. We'll have different episodes on like let's get into the system mechanics, let's get into the lore. Let's get into the way you might do home scenes which are these pretty important scenes that are like with your family and your bonds. We'll get into all that. But I would say that, you know, this game's been around for a while, right? I avoided it for a long time because I did not know what it was. I didn't properly understand what it was. A, it was brp. It was an offshoot of Call Cthulhu. And Sean will get into this in a moment. But B, the. I'm thinking of the 90s. The 90s here. And like I said, Sean will cover this. But when those, those books were on shelves, I had it in my mind that this is a game about special forces shooting up Cthulhu monsters. And it's very sort of, I don't know, chest beating kind of like let's go get him kind of, you know, machine guns and grenades and. And it is so far from that. It's not funny. But it took me, I don't even know why. Maybe I played in one play by post game and then bought the players the Agent's Handbook. The Agent's Handbook. And when, as soon as I read the first 30 pages of that, I'm like, oh, oh, now, you know, the penny dropped. And I'm like, oh, my God, this is. This is amazing. And we'll get into that part of what attracted me about it, why I think it's one of the best role playing games there is. But I just think that Sean's point a minute ago of, like, you give this a listen, you may not understand quite what Delta Green is. Even if. Even if you think you do, maybe you're, you know, like me, you're a little misguided in what it actually represents. But, Sean, I think you're going to lead us through sort of the background of this. Right, but what is this game and what did it come. Where did it come from? [00:40:42] Speaker A: Yeah. And before I do, I want to share the same thoughts that Harrigan says about how he perceived the game. I was not a Call Cthulhu fan, which we'll get into briefly. And I thought Delta Green was like, it's Delta Green. It's Delta Force. It's Delta. [00:41:02] Speaker B: Like, it's. [00:41:03] Speaker A: It's Commandos. Right? What? And, yeah, it's. I didn't understand it. And frankly, when it came out, you know, the Internet was not as robust as it is today, where we could actually learn more about certain things that we were kind of ignorant to. So I got into it very late in my RPG life as well and thought, well, oh, it's not what I had perceived originally. So I think that may not be an uncommon thing. And frankly, at the time that Pagan Publishing. Yes, Pagan Publishing put it out, the marketing around it, the ones that probably understood it and knew it, were in the Call of Cthulhu space and they had a supplement and like, oh, this is a great add on. [00:41:48] Speaker B: Literally an offshoot of Call of Cthulhu originally. Right? [00:41:52] Speaker A: Yeah, for sure. So to get into the origins of Delta Green, it starts from Dennis Detwiller, Scott Glancy, and John Scott Tynes. Those are some of the core personalities and founders that will be a theme throughout this and how they are tied to the game. But essentially, the original Delta Green, as it's mentioned and brought out in the RPG space, started in a fanzine. Did you know that, Harrigan? [00:42:23] Speaker B: I did, yeah. Unspeakable Oath. [00:42:25] Speaker A: Yes. [00:42:27] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:42:27] Speaker A: In 1993. [00:42:30] Speaker B: Yeah. So we're talking early 90s for this stuff goes way back, right. [00:42:33] Speaker A: Number seven of Unspeakable Oath in a scenario called Convergence, [00:42:41] Speaker B: which is a famous Delta Green scenario still, right? [00:42:43] Speaker A: It is. And it's been rewritten and brought up to date for the current rendition of Delta Green. It predates. And I think this is kind of important too is because I think the premise of Delta Green often gets lumped in or looped in or compared to the X Files. So if you are Chris Carter fan, when Chris Carter put out the X Files back in the 90s, maybe even the late 80s, Mulder and Scully, FBI agents. I say this because there might be folks that aren't familiar with the X Files, believe it or not. Harrigan. [00:43:18] Speaker B: Yeah, it's an old show now. [00:43:20] Speaker A: It is. But they investigate, you know, Mulder is the, you know, the truth is out there. He's this little odd duck put in a closet of the FBI to investigate these things, these paranormal activities, UFO sightings and things of that nature. And he's paired up with Scully, who is more of the skeptic. Together they investigate these and it's. It's a pretty fantastic TV show, episodic in nature. And there's a movie or two, I think that's out there. But my point is, is that Delta Green was released almost a year before the X Files was even out. [00:44:00] Speaker B: Well, it's interesting as well because when people are describing what Delta Green is, they often use X Files as a touch point kind of thing. And what you're saying right now is kind of amusing because it's not. X Files is not as much of a cultural like thing as it used to be. If you're in the 90s or the early 2000s, people knew the X files were 20 years removed, 30 years removed from that. So there's a whole generation of people who don't know the X Files so well. [00:44:25] Speaker A: And that's why I kind of wanted to mention it a little bit more in detail. But. So it was released as a full Source Book in 1997, winning awards, winning the Origins Award for Best RPG Supplement for, for the Call of Cthulhu RPG. So it's essentially a supplement and put out by Pagan Publishing. And then eventually they would release a few different books to include Countdown, which is the one that I held up earlier, the 400 page source book in 1999 to give you an idea of what era we're in for the state of RPGs. And then in 2007, May, there was a reprint of the 97 book, but with additional D20 stats, which I'm sure Hurricane can Wholly appreciate because of the D20 era of things going on at that time, it would be only apropos to have D20 versions of everything. And Harrigan was in his joy. [00:45:30] Speaker B: Well, it's even worse than that. So in 2007, they make the, the D20 version like you're talking about, right? [00:45:38] Speaker A: Correct. [00:45:38] Speaker B: Or they, they, they published some stats and all that stuff. And you're right, I was, I was a, you know, not a fan of that movement, shall we say. But I, I'm just as angry or just, just as. As bent out of shape. 10 years earlier, 15 years earlier when the. Remember I said I. I didn't gravitate towards the game in the 90s, I knew about it. I had a misconception about what it was about, but I did know it was a Call of Cthulhu supplement. And this is called Cthulhu 5th Edition at the time, which has, in my humble opinion, some significant jank around, like the number of skills, the rules I had, you know, just been exposed to Call of Cthulhu in the early 90s. So I remember thinking, love this stuff, love the period play, love the mythos. Longtime Lovecraft fan, which we'll get into later in these episodes, I'm sure. But man, this system sucks. You know, the whole like, headbutt is different than kick, is different than punch, is different than, you know, there's jump and climb and, and, and. And all the things I've complained about on. Both on my blog and on the show around BRP were really front and center for me in the 90s because I had this experience with fifth edition. Sixth edition gets a little bit better. And we'll talk about that because that's what the new one is based off of. And seven Edition, I think, is further streamlined still for Call of Cthulhu, but sorry for the divergence here, but it wasn't just the two D20 or just the D20 version I didn't like. It was the. It was the 5th edition CoC version. I also was like, yeah, no, thank you. [00:47:09] Speaker A: Well, I'm glad you brought that up because I did not have that noted. Is the version that Delta Green came for. [00:47:15] Speaker B: Delta Green, I think it's based on fifth. Yeah, yeah. At this time it's based on fifth. [00:47:20] Speaker A: Got it. And then Pagan and Arc Dream began working on Delta Green Eyes Only chat book, which was a finalist for Origins award for best RPG supplement. That was in 2007. 2008 started. They started on targets of opportunity, launched in 2010, which won the silver any in 2011 for best writing and best adventure. Some of the time. I was probably just getting back into RPGs when these things were coming out at this time. And I don't own. Like I said, I only bought Countdown like a week ago for Pagan Publishing. [00:47:58] Speaker B: Yep. [00:48:00] Speaker A: So we've moved forward into the Arc Dream era and that was founded in 2002. So you'll be like, wait a minute, hold on a second. So Arc Dream, Pagan Arc Dream was founded in 2002, but the latest edition of of Delta Green as a solo standing game doesn't come out until 2015. Arc Dream originally was founded by Dennis and Shane. They would later add Caleb Stokes and Chris Spivey. So if you know who Chris is. And Caleb. Caleb did red markets. Chris Spivey had done Harlem Unbound, amongst other things. And they joined the team at Arc Dream. I'm sure they got a couple others. But the initial focus for Arc Dream originally was to support their game. Godlike Superhero Role Playing in a World of on Fire, 1936-1946. In which case I will turn over to Harrigan and ask him, harrigan, as a supers RPG person, have you explored Godlike? [00:49:01] Speaker B: I know of it, but I know it's not one of the ones that I got into deeply, probably because I looked at the rules at the time and they were kind of like, you know, quote unquote. Not for me is what I would say. I do remember reviewing it. I remember thinking, I'm not going to play this game. I probably have the PDF somewhere, something like that. But I won't speak ill of it. I should revisit it and have a closer look at it. Certainly no recognition that that was the same team that later did Delta Green and that sort of thing. Like zero recognition of that. This is a reminder to me now that these guys even did that work. This is interesting stuff, this timeline here, because sixth edition Call of Cthulhu comes out in the early 2000s, I think. So they have a different foundation to kind of work from as they do the Arc Dream. I do have a question for you. Did you crowdfund this in 2015? I think the game itself comes out in 16, right? [00:49:47] Speaker A: It does, right? Yes. So that's accurate. But I did not. And that was because it wasn't on my radar still. [00:49:54] Speaker B: So the part time is a funny thing, Sean Tiny Whimy. Because I remember thinking when I finally discovered the Arc Dream version, the current version that we're going to talk about for most of the episodes here, which is just amazing. Game design. When I finally discovered that, I was like, man, what have I been? What have I been missing? I can't. [00:50:13] Speaker A: Damn it. [00:50:13] Speaker B: You know, like this has been out there the whole time. Well, you know what? I think that was 2018 or 2019, Sean, that I discovered it. So I was only out for two years. Time is a weird thing where I felt like I'd missed all this opportunity, but in fact, there's a couple years worth of time. Really. [00:50:29] Speaker A: I mean, if you were to have tripped across that in the Pagan publishing era, though, the system may have been jank, but I think the setting would have been of of interest. I think for sure. Yeah. [00:50:41] Speaker B: And I don't, I don't want to emphasize too much the system jank kind of thing. I just have some issues with skill heavy systems. Some of the BRP stuff, you can easily trim some of that stuff and have lots of fun with those. And I continue to play any version of Call of Cthulhu because the keepers, the players and the stories are so good that I'll put up with the system, basically. [00:51:00] Speaker A: And this is coming from somebody that has played GURPS and HERO systems. I just want to provide context to the irony behind some of Harrigan's thoughts. [00:51:11] Speaker B: Well, that's part of the problem though, because BRP is that situation where I saw in a recent game. I'll write this up eventually in my blog. I played Age of Vikings at Genghis Khan, which is a BRP take on very grounded Icelandic Norse men and women, like farmers, like really grounded, really cool. And my character sheet had like. And she had an axe and a Seax, I think, which is like a shorter Viking sword. And she had like a 60 in her ax. And because the whoever designed the character ran out of points. She had like a 10% in her sword and she was, she was conveyed as this like kind of badass. And I'm like, she doesn't sin her 15% in the sword. And that is all about the fact that BRP does not run like Hero and like Gurps in terms of skill defaults. It's all I'll say about that. But it is. Those are all skill heavy systems and some of them are better designed than others. Is all I will say. [00:52:09] Speaker A: Fair. [00:52:09] Speaker B: Go on with Arc Dream. [00:52:12] Speaker A: They would eventually, like I mentioned, get to crowdfunding Delta green in 2015. John Scott Tynes does play a role in some of it, but it kind of sets. It goes on to work at Wizards of the coast where he is currently. So I think most of the work on Delta Green is Caleb Stokes, Chris Spivey, now Dennis Detwiller and Shane Ivy. It's its own D100 based game. So it is not a supplement to Call of Cthulhu like it originally was put out. It's released in 2016 that people start getting that in PDF and print. The core game is made up of two books, the agent's Handbook as well as the Handler's Guide. And the Agent's Handbook I think precedes the Handler's Guide by about a year. So there is a there, you know, so for some of us that have been in the D and Ds and get the. The three core books and those get staggered, you know, with the Handler's Guide being a year indifference, some people be like, oh my God, that's a long time. Which is. But it's also. The Handler's Guide is very much not needed in order to get it to the table and start playing. There's a lot of flavor and frankly, if you come from the old Delta Green, they do port a lot of that. Like, they're not recreating the wheel when it comes to the lore of Delta Green. As a matter of fact, they are still to this day creating books that are based on the old Pagan publishing history and major NPCs and timelines. So they would go on to launch 70 plus scenarios. So I was like, whoa, that's a lot. I think I own. I don't know if I own every one of them yet. [00:54:00] Speaker B: That's a lot. That's more than I was thinking. [00:54:01] Speaker A: Yeah. 14 to 15. Any awards? Three to four Origin awards. Community Writing Contest, the Shotgun Scenario contest that has been running for years now and even goes back to the Pagan publishing days. And then there's crossovers that begin with Pelgren Press and Ken Haidt over there with the fall of Delta Green that they have collaborated on and is out there. And then of course, they put out a supplement campaign for the gumshoe version released by Pelgren Press. [00:54:32] Speaker B: Very well supported, well loved game by many people, even though it's not exactly like a limelight game. You know, I think in terms of popularity, you got your. You got your D and D of various varieties and you got your Call of Cthulhu, especially in, like Japan. Call of Cthulhu is like super, super popular over there. Delta Green's not on many people's radars, but it has this really rabid fan base. [00:54:54] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. The shotgun scenario alone, just to give people kind of an understanding what that Is. It's what I think, 1100 words. It's done once a year. And of course some of those scenarios that people have submitted have gone on to be major supplements, like Last Things [00:55:11] Speaker B: Last, they get developed into full adventures. How does it work, Sean? I think it's a. And we've covered this briefly on the show before, but we're Delta Greening it in, in hardcore mode now, boys. The shotgun scenarios are like 1500 or 2000 words, something like that. Like it's a. The shotgun part is meant to be quick, dirty. Give me your ideas. And I think you're about to say a minute ago, like they were running this contest annually. I think it was like 30 to 40 entries or something. And now it's up to like how many? [00:55:39] Speaker A: 70 to 80. [00:55:40] Speaker B: 70 some, yeah, pretty cool. And they have a vault, there's a library that has all of them in it and they've been doing this for 20 years. So there's tons of shotgun scenarios. It's quite frankly daunting to go through, but I will. Yeah, it's good stuff. I've got. I don't want to get us off track. Keep, keep going on the history and then we'll, we'll revisit some of that. [00:55:57] Speaker A: So that's some of the publishing history and then Delta Green as far as what it is really about, we can go into. I haven't fleshed it out in a huge amount of detail. The setting takes place and it's a setting rooted in contemporary, you know, modern day, where in 1928 there was, if you've read any Lovecraft, Radon Innsmouth, you know, the fictional town in Massachusetts that was invaded. Spoilers. If you are not. If you're. If you haven't read Lovecraft and we reference those and you haven't read it, we may touch on some of those details, but it's not really Delta Green. They go. The Treasury Department goes there and investigates what appears to be an infiltration of what? [00:56:44] Speaker B: The deep ones. [00:56:46] Speaker A: Deep ones, yes. And they come in and basically raise the town and cover it up. And eventually as things progress, there's a long detailed history of Delta Green coming into existence. And essentially as it becomes a thing to know about the paranormal and the deep ones investigating these, but keeping it on the down low from everybody else because if it did get out that these things existed, civilization would, you know, dive into chaos pretty quickly. The OSS comes about World War II and they eventually establish a group within the government and give them a security clearance called Delta Green. So it's actually named after a security clearance, which then becomes its own moniker as the individuals that work for this program. It's officially sanctioned and government funded. And then eventually, in the 60s, late 60s, there's again the reference to the fall of Delta Green by Gumshoe and Pilgrim Press, where there is some things that happen and there are different factions at play. So there is the philosophy. There's a group called Majestic that comes into existence where they are the sciency types that think that, well, we don't want to just lay waste to all of this questionable, horrible, cosmic, unnatural stuff. Yeah, cosmic, unnatural things. We may be able to harness it for good. And, you know. And so Delta Green and Majestic are bitter enemies. The fall of Delta Green controversy. The leader is killed and they defund Delta Green, and it's gone, and it goes underground. And then there's a long period of agents that are part of an unofficial Delta Green, if you will. And there's a whole dynamic there. And then eventually, in the late 90s, early 2000s, they fire it back up in the government and get it funded again. And then there's dynamics between the old guard that were kind of ousted, known as the Outlaws, and then the official individuals that are part of the government and being funded and things of that nature that almost becomes more majestic in nature, like in. In wanting to explore. [00:59:10] Speaker B: Because Majestic is gone at that point, too, right? They're taken care of. [00:59:14] Speaker A: Yeah. So, yeah, that's a handler's guide in, I don't know, few minutes. [00:59:20] Speaker B: That's a thumbnail. That's a thumbnail. We're not. We're not gonna put it this way. We're gonna do an entire episode on the lore, right? Yeah. And, you know, that may or may not be to some people's taste, but it really is interesting stuff for a couple of reasons. But to me, it's because you have this whole. Now it's almost 100 years of history, Sean, that you can pick and run Delta Green missions at any point through time here. So you can run a World War II Delta Green mission where the Nazis are up to no good. You can run them in the 60s. You can be in Vietnam during the fall, Delta Green, when that all goes down. You can be in the 90s when it's this outlaw period where you are not sanctioned by anybody. You don't have any funding. You don't have. You know, it's all truly underground. And then my favorite. I love the modern. The modern version, because you have this. This tension between the different groups that are all at play. Remnants of Majestic who are inside Delta Green now. The Outlaws who are like f, you guys, you know, you' you're all just government, you know, yes men. And the agents, quite frankly don't know about the Outlaws, which I love. Like if you're a brand new, you know, fresh faced kid who's just come out of the marines, you were a marshal for a while. Now you've been, you know, you've been inducted into Delta Green. You have probably no idea that the Outlaws even exist. Except these, there's these old gray haired men and women who are like, we're the ones who know, you know, what's really going on and we've been at this for 20 years and all that kind of stuff. Stuff. It's incredibly rich. Some lore is, you know, I just blow right past it and quite frankly, I have not spent a lot of time with the Handler's guy because I feel like even though we'll spend a show on the lore, you can get what you need out of like an hour's review of things. You can seize upon the elements that are interesting to you and just go, go with your own version of that. And I will also say, Sean, you and I have talked about this before off the mics. There's some inconsistencies all through these books about who was in charge when and when such and such a thing happens. The best example being impossible landscapes where you are agents during the outlaw period. You were unsanctioned. And then for anybody who knows that adventure, cover your ears if you don't want any spoilers. This is a minor one. There's a time jump between the first part of the adventure and the second part. And in that time jump, Delta Green gets fired back up as an official organization. So. And the book does not really address head on. What does that mean to these people who were outlaws? Are they still outlaws or are they inducted? If I were to run that adventure now, you know, you and I haven't talked about it, Sean, I would have some things in the adventure around. Do you come in from the cold or not or. You know what I mean? Like is this an official team or is this an outlaw team that continues? There's so much to the lore that is interesting. I don't know, I just, I love it. But I will also say I have never poured through that 400 page book like and just page turn it. Handler's Guide. It's, it's a lot. There's a lot of data, a lot of data to process in that book, [01:02:16] Speaker A: it's thicker than the agent handbook and it's, it's got a lot of, a lot of beef in there. But why do we, as a covert action RPG podcast, want to cover Delta Green? Like, it sounds like it's an agency of the government. Harrigan. It sounds like there might be something there, but I don't, I don't know. I'm not grabbing it from what you guys have put down so far. So you're hunting the monsters? Like, is that the deal? [01:02:48] Speaker B: Are we going to get into all that right now? We're going to save that for a later show? [01:02:51] Speaker A: I think we should at least say why we are covering Delta Green without going into all of the details. But like, how does it relate to covert action, spy craft, tradecraft, some of those details. [01:03:05] Speaker B: Okay, so maybe you have something prepared on this shooting from the hip. Shooting from the hip, I would say because so much of it is about the COVID world and this, this, this world beneath what everyone else sees and the, the dramatic, like, you are not allowed to tell anybody about this stuff. No one can know. So what are the, what are the tenants, Sean? Or something like discover the incursion, destroy the incursion, cover up the incursion, Something like that. When we get into the episodes, we'll, we'll frame that, frame that up tight, more tightly. But I will tell you here's where and I'll return to you or like, what attracts you about the espionage side of it in a minute. But before I lose my trail of thought here or train of thought, I should say part of what's so cool is the COVID up can include like, hey, did a few people witness what happened? You better talk to them and make sure they're either quiet, become friendlies to the program, are inducted to the program, or you gotta whack them. These are the player characters having to make these decisions. Because one of the things about Delta Green, I think in any of its iterations, whether it's the post fall from the 20s to the 70s or 60s, or it's the outlaw period or even the new period, you have very little command and control over top of you because it's so secretive, right? So you have to make these decisions in the field without always calling, being able to call home and say, m, this has happened, this has happened, this has happened. What do I do now? There's a ton of impetus put upon the players to make the decisions and get the thing done kind of thing. And that means they have to hide this from their families. This Means they have to hide it from their coworkers. And it means when they want to communicate with Delta Green, it's in a clandestine, clandestine way, whether it's a phone call or a letter or encrypted comms of some kind, whatever. So all the trade craft stuff starts to kind of flood through their whole lives where you're leading essentially double lives in some ways. Like when you're going away to a convention for the weekend, see you, honey. You're actually going to like Maryland to check on this thing that's happened, that the local authorities, somebody in the local authorities is a friendly to the program and knows how to make a phone call to somebody in D.C. they make the phone call, they assemble a team and that team goes. And that team can be assembled from all over the place. And this is where there's a bit of a jumble in the lore as well, where many people, Sean, like the idea of the, the letter code for the team name and every agent, so every agent might be named with the letter D, for example, right? Like, like Agent Dodge and agent, you know, dart, etc. That's really a, that's an outlaw thing from the 90s. When they got defunded, they started doing that. The modern program that exists in the, in the 2000s is much more about assembling the team of experts that they need. So you may not have met these people before when suddenly you're meeting at a diner or a cafe or in a government office somewhere in the back room and you have to introduce yourselves and this is, I'm coming to a point here, purposefully. Or you introduce yourself to these other player characters you've never met. And you have this driving conceit of why you're there and why you have to do this that overrides all manner of rpger. What's my motivation? Why am I doing this? Why wouldn't I just. Why wouldn't I just leave the town and not go to the dungeon, Blah, blah, blah, all that stuff. Delta Green takes that stuff out back, it beats it and it shoots it in the head. So you are left with this very concise. You're doing this to save the world, to save your sanity, to save your loved ones, but they can't know about it. So the reason for being, the reason to adventure together is like so razor sharp in this game. It's one of the things that when I finally sat down and read it, I was like, oh my God. It's like the greatest conceit ever for why the team would even be together. Like, of course you would. And if you diverge, guess who's going to hunt you down? Delta Green. So if you go off the plot and start like, you know, making. Doing press conferences about things and all that sort of stuff, it's not pure espionage, but there's so much of it wound up in secrecy in information retrieval and information protection. I don't know. That's my rambling take. That's kind of all over the map. Do you have something more concise as to why you think this game belongs on this show? Oh, please. [01:07:39] Speaker A: No, I don't. I don't. There is obviously some more to the game that we haven't touched on, but that is why we want it to be its thing for the season. It really is. And to Harrigan's point, it's because of the. It's all done on the DL. Like, it's very much similar to spycraft to the point. Like, it's even more. This is not Mission Impossible. This is not like the games we've. Many of the games that we've played or touched on where it's like, yeah, you want to be James Bond. Yeah, you want to be Mission Impossible. You know, a team of five that got some pretty robust skills and competencies. And, you know, you have your own competency within the game of Delta Green. But it's very grounded and is almost like, you know, you could get into more Cold War type of approaches with Delta Green. It has lethality ratings. Like if you get shot and you roll a certain number, they say when guns come out in doubt, the green people die. So there is a bit of that gritty action. Gritty action, grittiness to the game that is a little bit different than some of the higher, higher action, higher octane, higher type of COVID action RPGs that we've come in touch with. [01:09:02] Speaker B: I would add this isn't so much on the espionage front, but just trying to understand the game. Think about this as well. Like, it is one of the most grounded games we've talked about so far. It is the real world, literally, with another layer underneath and this cosmic horror that sees and boils and bubbles beneath the, you know, what the common person is able to perceive sort of thing, right? So there's that part of it too. Like not only are you in this organization and generally you had some sort of inciting incident where something's happened to you and you've seen the unnatural, you've encountered it. Something happened to your sister, your brother, your mother, whatever. And at the end of that incident, Delta Green has come forward and said, hey, some of us know about this and we're doing something about it. Do you want in? And there's that moment where you're like brought in or not, right? You will never understand what you are fighting, what your opponents consist of, who's involved and who's not. So as a player you have to be cool with that. Like you're in the dark. Like you are. You are not high end agents who are like, I'll handle this. You know, that is so far from Delta Green. But what it means is you can bring your real world knowledge of how the actual world works and apply it. So you can say, can we rent a car? Yeah, let's just go rent a car and do this because it's the real world. Well, if no character is 25 years old. No you can't. Because you can't. You can't rent cars if you're not 25 in the real world. And do you know how to get into a storage unit area and storage unit area? You know, storage unit businesses figure very large at Delta Green because that's a way to like hand things off to people without even the, the whole idea of the green box and everything. Like how do you get equipment and documents, how do you hand them over and do dead drops and all that stuff? That's where the espionage thing comes really, really strongly to the fore. But it means you can apply all that espionage knowledge that you might have or your real world knowledge of just how. Like can we go to the, go to the town hall, look up the records on a Saturday afternoon at 4:50, is that record clerk going to be in there? You know what I mean? Like that's where there's less of the. Do we all have the same understanding of how this fantasy world works or how the science fiction world works? We have to have these conversations over, is there faster than light travel? Are there aliens? Well, Delta for Delta Green, it's like it's the real world. Look out your window. That's what it is. But there's this seething layer beneath that you are now about to dive into sort of thing. And Sean, I don't know if we want to save this for a whole episode, but early on when you and I, when you, I think you ran Impossible Landscapes, maybe you ran a couple of one shots or something that I played in, I started to dive into the game more fully. I ran last things last a couple times. It's one of those games where if everybody at the table is not like tuned into that radio frequency of what we're describing. If they don't have the dial set to Delta Green, they're not going to have as much fun. Everyone's not going to have as much fun if they think it's a different game. If they think it's this game where I'm a hotshot with my machine gun and I'm just going to blow holes and everything, or I'm a superhero who can take a punch from anything and it's just so not that game. And I'm exaggerating right now. People don't generally arrive thinking they're a superhero or anything, but they also don't get necessarily like how secret you have to keep this or if someone pulls out a freaking 9 millimeter Beretta and points it at you, they can kill you. It doesn't matter if you have, you know, you're not going to have 45 hit points in this game. The game does and the gun does 1d10. And if someone pulls out, God forbid, an automatic weapon like we're gonna have to bleep the shama, get the down, like take cover because you're gonna, you'll be dead otherwise if they open fire at you. Right. I mean there's obviously there's, there's roles that are made and all the rest, but the weapons are very deadly. They're, they're very realistic. That's what I would say. I don't know. But you mean what is your, what's your take on that whole like players got to be bought in the right way sort of thing? Because I have totally. And I do that. [01:12:54] Speaker A: But yeah, it's, I'm, I'm experiencing a little disjointedness in my, my group currently. That is something that we may touch on and how that dynamic is. But one thing I also wanted to also elaborate on is the conspiracy. The conspiracy that is brought up in many of the source books and the underlying nature and foundation of Delta Green missions and how you act and things of that nature, that all plays into the conspiracy. See, it's almost like an alternate reality, right, where if we were to talk about a major incident that has occurred in the real world in fictional Delta Green, there's something else that happened, right. 9, 11. We know experienced it. We know what happened and it was tragic. But you know, you take that into the Delta Green world and they twist it. That's the COVID That's the COVID right? [01:14:00] Speaker B: What we experienced was the COVID Yes. [01:14:02] Speaker A: And so the Delta Green agents know the truth of what actually happened, which is obviously fictional by the way. We just want to make note of that. We're not. Because it's in a game. We don't want to downplay the tragedy that was 911 and the people that died that day. But it is something that's very interesting. So when you look at newspaper articles of an earthquake in South America and it, you know, wreaked havoc and ate on the richter scale and 100 people died and da, da, da, da, da. Yes, that probably happened in real life, of course, but in Delta Green it happened. But there is a reason behind it that others may know, but the public only sees it from the CNN angle. [01:14:46] Speaker B: Can I, can I build upon your conscious thing? And I knew when I said, when you said, you know, how does it fit into the espionage world? And I rambled and then you went, you know, you, you golf clapped, you forgot this part and which you've just added. The whole conspiracy thing is so wired into like an espionage sort of set of themes. Picture this because Sean a minute ago said, you know, the 911 current story, you know, as he said, we don't believe any. I'm not a conspiracy theorist theorist at all. I will tell you right now, right. You know, we've been, we've been to the moon, Elvis is not alive, etc, [01:15:20] Speaker A: I beg to differ. But that's okay. [01:15:22] Speaker B: Okay, okay. So not a conspiracy theorist theorist. But [01:15:27] Speaker A: I'm kidding. By the way, don't write me in. Don't write, you know, oh, that Trump guy, he's a quack. Like. No, no. So anyways, go on. [01:15:34] Speaker B: I'm sorry, you mentioned that Delta Green would know the truth about what happened. Right. So picture this. That is true at the highest echelons in Delta Green's leadership command structure. But Delta Green is actually a whole bunch of cells that don't know shit about each other or what happened. So there's this like knowledge is such information in this game which is totally an espionage thing. You, in some cases like with the outlaws in the 90s, you don't even know each other's names. You're not supposed to. That's why you have these letter code names. And in fact there's explicit instructions. Do not get to know each other. Do not fraternize outside of the of the mission. Do not xyz. So this is where like holy rich role playing opportunity. Like what about romantic relationships, friendships, people who rely on each other and some we'll get into the bonds part of this. We're not going to go into that deeply right now. But I will say a bond is like, you know, a relationship you rely on to keep you sane and keep you mentally healthy. Right. [01:16:37] Speaker A: Ground grounded. [01:16:38] Speaker B: Keep you grounded. [01:16:39] Speaker A: Yes. [01:16:40] Speaker B: If you form bonds with other Delta Green agents, they're worthless because you're all damaged. And you are. Now, what do you talk about? You talk about the. That you're doing for the job. You don't talk about the soccer game you've been to and the movie you went to. You talk about the bad stuff. So, man, this game has. Has layers upon layers of just this beautiful complexity. Last thing I would say around the conspiracy, like, you're not even allowed to call Delta Green by its name. Like, you do not say that you are in the program. Right. It is not funded directly by Congress. It pulls funding from a ton of other federal departments. So if you want to get a plane ticket, it might be like the Department of the Interior or the Bureau of Reclamation, who buys the plane ticket because somebody somewhere knew how to pull the strings. So there's this intricate web of people all through the federal government, the US Federal government, who do these things. Things, Yeah. I just. I love that part of it. And quite frankly, the Agents Agent's Handbook, Sean, has a better and more realistic treatment of the way our federal government is organized than I've seen in many places. Like, it goes into detail about what if you're a GIS analyst and you're working for the National Park Service. It's like, it gets right into it. It's pretty cool. But the part that I love so much is that. That you get this mix of, like, those are. I think those are called operatives versus specialists. Do I have that right? [01:18:06] Speaker A: Correct. [01:18:07] Speaker B: So the operatives are the ones who have some form of law enforcement capabilities. They're FBI, they're CIA, they're marshals, whatever. Right. And there's also local law enforcement you can do. Not. Not everyone is a federal agent by any means, which is my point here. You also have specialists who might be like a linguist or a scientist or a chemist or a. Whatever. So you can literally bring anybody to the table in a Delta Green mission from any walk of life as long as they have, like, a set of skills and they have had an incursion and they've been drawn into the program. You're probably going to be paired with like some sort of FBI agent or somebody who has a little more cred kind of thing. I just love that. I love that there's this dynamic where you have all these people who Kind of know what they're doing and other, you know, in terms of a law enforcement side of things and other people are like, I'm here for a different reason. And you have that. Like, we've got to make this figure out. Like some of them made it be pretty, pretty anti authority and. And all the rest, but they've been drawn in. I don't know. We could go on forever about what we like about it for sure. I have a question for you though. Unless you have more to add here, I'm good. [01:19:10] Speaker A: Go ahead. [01:19:11] Speaker B: So I heard you say on your stream recently, or Saturday morning stream when you talked briefly about this game in this upcoming season, that you're not a big Lovecraft guy, but you're not like, like the, the cosmic horror part is not the attraction for you and that's such a big part of this game. You need to explain yourself. He's gonna say it. [01:19:33] Speaker A: I'm not gonna say it. It's a question, an inquiry. You're putting me on the spot and I don't have. [01:19:41] Speaker B: I am just curious. [01:19:44] Speaker A: I'll address you. Senator, [01:19:48] Speaker B: do you mean to tell me that you went all through this book without knowing anything on HP Lovecraft and works that he wrote? [01:19:54] Speaker A: The commission will allow me. I will say. I will state I. That is right. That is true. I have not. I don't think. I don't think I've read a single piece of HP Lovecraft. [01:20:08] Speaker B: There you go. [01:20:08] Speaker A: And I don't me personally running this game, I don't think it matters. So if you think. Actually to some of those that are probably skeptical and like, ah, it's just Call of Cthulhu and Lovecraft and I'm not into Lovecraft and Cosmic Horror and Yog Sokoth and Cthulhu and all that. And that is fine. The thing is, your players don't need. Well, but my players will need to know that. No, they will not. Because they don't know anything to our point. Right. They may have encountered something, but they don't know the nature of what that thing is. And frankly, a lot of the mythos is so crazily out of our minds that we can't even comprehend that makes people go insane. That's why it's so out there. And so when you run Delta Green and they come across something, yes, they're going to encounter these things and it's good to know. But you can read a step black and some of the text that relates to whatever they're encountering. It's so funny because I Think there is a preconceived notion of knowing things when you play a particular game. And the grounding of Delta Green is what you know, it's the real world, really. You know, things exist, but when it hits its stride and you run into something that just does not make any sense, there's a reason it doesn't make any sense, because it's way above and beyond anything that us humans can comprehend. [01:21:40] Speaker B: Can I chime in? [01:21:40] Speaker A: Yes. [01:21:42] Speaker B: I don't think it matters even a little. And in fact, one of the things that's also in the the Handler's Guide, it's the lore that Sean and I talked about, and it's a bunch of magical spells and it's a bunch of creatures. It's like the Lovecraft Clubcraft mythos. Creatures are in there. You know, whether it's dimensional shamblers or Migo or Bakis or whatever, like all that stuff. You can run Delta Green without any of that. [01:22:07] Speaker A: Correct. [01:22:07] Speaker B: And in fact, some ways it's almost better because some people know the mythos so well, they're like, oh, I know what this is. It's a deep one and it's a da da, da, da da, Right. Which can be annoying for some of us GMs when that happens. Right. I do think you can. You can toss all that out the window, but I. I think it has to be unknowable cosmic horror. So it can't be the kind of horror you can, like, wrap your head around, like, oh, it's zombies or it's just vampires and werewolves. And I had this deep seated familiarity with the fact that, let's get some garlic going, some running water, some mirrors, some silver bullets. The. That you encounter in Delta Green needs to result in WTF moments like. Like hardcore. Like, what did we just even see? What did. You know, what is happening here? You know, what stuff? Tangent. I would also say you don't do that all the time. You need this long stretches of normalcy and Delta Green where you're just investigating, you're trying to uncover. And there are these bursts of WTF moments when you take the sanity damage and all the rest. Right. So although I'm surprised that you're like, I never even read a single Lovecraft story. I'm on the opposite side of the fence. Right. I started reading lovecraft at like 12 when I found a pocketbook at a church fair, of all places, and it was the Shadow Over Innsmouth. So I actually, the story that Delta Ring comes from is one of the first stories that I read it's pretty cool. [01:23:33] Speaker A: Yeah, I think there's. I think that was a plant. [01:23:37] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. Let me circle back to one last thing here, and maybe, maybe we move on. Maybe we wrap this up about the players at the table needing to be bought in and needing to be, like, on the same page. I think if someone spends like 30 minutes, 20 minutes with the. With the. The agent's handbook, they'll get it. You just have to read the first, like, 20 or 30 pages. It talks in detail about what the missions are like, about what your life used to be like and is like now, etc. And these have to be players that are on board with there. There is a Call of Cthulhu element here where this isn't going to end well. This is not a heroic story. This is either you stop the incursion for now, you lose your sanity, you lose your life, or something much more terrible happens and, like, reality ends. You know, that kind of thing. These are your options. So you need those types of players who are on board for that. Like, that ride of my sanity is being ground down. I'm losing my relationships with the people that I love. I'm coming apart. I'm disintegrating. The way that I often look at this is that Delta Green is about the disintegration of the player characters. They try to hold on to everything that they can and they can't. And there are these elements where you're like, do you go murder that school teacher who saw the wrong thing, who has a family of five and no husband? You're going to go kill her? And if you do, what are the repercussions to that? Like, man, this is why. I'm sorry I get excited about this, but this is why this game for me is like, neck next level. It's like way up there. If you take even a little bit of time to pour yourself into the stories that can come out of it that are not about monsters, they're about what happens to you when you encounter them. I love this game is all I will say. [01:25:23] Speaker A: I call it the diminishment of the human spirit. [01:25:26] Speaker B: There you go. Yeah. [01:25:31] Speaker A: You start out as rosy, you know, roses and rainbows, agent doing good work for the government. And then right at the end, you're a shell of a person [01:25:47] Speaker B: with a gun in your mouth, lack of emotion, [01:25:50] Speaker A: strung out on some type of drug or alcohol to deal with what you've been dealing with. [01:25:57] Speaker B: And there are rules for using, like, amphetamines and, you know, drugs and alcohol to to combat all these things you're feeling. So it's a, it's a. [01:26:04] Speaker A: To numb, numb the pain. [01:26:06] Speaker B: It's a heavy game. It's probably a game that needs some like, like safety tools and some like, discussion in session zero. Some of the content is incredibly dark, like really dark. So, yeah, including a lot of the published material. Right. Like super dark. But that's what the game is about. You can easily steer career clear of any particular, you know, hang up you might have or any, any particular content that you want to steer clear of, including if you have a player at the table who's just lost their spouse or whatever. Right. Like it's, it's. That's why I think you should have those conversations. And removing certain content is not going to ruin the game for those people who are like, it's what the game is, live with it kind of thing. There's enough nasty in this game that you can steer into other awful things and avoid the things that may be injuring some players when they're at the table, I guess is what I would say. Do we want to get into the system at all? Do you want to just put that off for another episode? [01:27:00] Speaker A: Put it off for another episode? I think we covered a very good, hopefully initial take on Delta Green and why, if you, if you are on the Delta Green train and you're yelling at your pod dudes, I'm on board. I'm, I'm, I, I got a couple tickets and brought some buddies. [01:27:21] Speaker B: Great. [01:27:22] Speaker A: But if you were on the fence and weren't sure and you're like, ah, I was really spycraft and I was like, you know, top secret and a little bit oblivious to Delta Green. Like both Harrigan and I were. Maybe we'll, we'll open your eyes a little bit to the conspiracy that is. And with that. Any last words? Harrigan? [01:27:46] Speaker B: Minor last words? I don't think this season is going to be like 25 episodes long. Right. Like, we don't. There's not that much we're going to cover in the game. We both knew we have a lot to say about it because it's such a rich game that I think it's one of, you know, it's a top three game for me probably, probably for you too. Like, it's way up there and there's lots to, lots of angles to look at. But we're not gonna, we're not gonna go on and on for a year about this game. We'll, we'll power through some things that we think are important. And interesting to look at. We want people to write in. If you've got some. Some things that you want us to kind of make sure that we, you know, consider. I do think there are a couple of mechanics and things in the game, Sean, that are not very well explained or not very well. I don't know. They'll. They're not satisfying to me in terms of how I would apply them in the game. And I'd like to explore that stuff in some of our episodes. But beyond that, no, I'm just excited to. To get into this man. Excellent. [01:28:36] Speaker A: And with that, I will sign off on behalf of Harrigan and I. Thanks for tuning in to Go Bag. We hope to have you listen to the next one and if you liked what you heard, do us a favor and tell somebody. Otherwise, thanks for tuning in. See you on the next one. This episode of Go Bag, produced with help from the following friendlies, field operatives, special agents and black ops directors. Joe Swick, Roger French, Merkle Froilich, Tony Sugarloaf Baker, Polish Ogre Who Scarl Marty McMutterpants, Laramie Wall, Eileen Barnes Hepto Lima, Aaron Railia, Wayne Peacock, Jeff Walken Yorkus Rex Eric Salswiedle, Phil McClory, Jason Hobbs, Michael Holland, Remy Billodeau Crystal Egstad, Eric Avia Fornak, Brian Kurtz, Chad Blaymon, Jim Ingram Orchestra Chris Shorb, Brian Rumble, Victor Wyatt, Kevin Kelly Keneally Andy Hall, Jason Weitzel Salt Hart, Tad Lechtman, Nicholas Abruzzo Matthew Katron Curtis Takahashi, Angela Murray Mr. White 20 Jason Connerly Shannon Olson Ryan West Kristen McLean Larry Hollis, Len Seal Jake at Faded Quill Great Jake at Faded Quill Gaming Test Trekkie Tim Jensen Nubis Christopher Lang, Karla Peter Skaines, Wendy for Con James Fraser Ronald Dirigible and and Chaplain Grimaldis. Thank you. Operatives.