Delta Green: Three Things We Haven't Done Yet

[00:00:03] Speaker A: Strap in operatives, this is go bag your all access pass to modern day RPGs loaded with bullets, backstories and a whole lot of bad decisions. And here are your mission leaders, Sean and Harrigan. [00:00:22] Speaker B: Hey, Harrigan area. [00:00:25] Speaker A: Oh, Sean, how are you? [00:00:26] Speaker B: I'm doing all right, how are you? [00:00:28] Speaker A: Hanging in there, man. [00:00:30] Speaker B: So all you can do? [00:00:33] Speaker A: Yes, yes. I'm a brachiator, so you know I'm good at it. Sean, what have you been doing in the world of espionage Delta Green this [00:00:42] Speaker B: week I've been reading Holy War and [00:00:45] Speaker A: Holy War is it was. [00:00:46] Speaker B: I have a link in the set rep but it's the latest release from Arc Dream Publishing. The latest scenario. [00:00:54] Speaker A: Is it a scenario or like a big ass, you know, big beefy one or is it like a 48 page, 32 page? [00:00:59] Speaker B: It's not a 48 pager. I haven't checked the page count. McClory friend of the show mentioned that it's like 111 pages. It does say it is for advanced players and handlers. [00:01:15] Speaker A: Hmm. [00:01:16] Speaker B: In the beginning of the of the scenario, which I thought was interesting. Which I thought I also told Phil then it's probably not for me. [00:01:24] Speaker A: Oh, I did. I was in that chat. [00:01:26] Speaker B: I saw that. Yeah, yeah. [00:01:28] Speaker A: Without spoiling. Why. Why do you think they say that? [00:01:30] Speaker B: There's a lot of stuff going on. I think maybe I don't know any moving. [00:01:34] Speaker A: Moving parts you mean? [00:01:35] Speaker B: Well, I'm very much the scenario for folks that aren't in the know. It's been released. You can get it at Drive Thru rpg. You can, you can order it and then you could pre order it in print and you'll be able to get the. If you order it in print for Mark Dream, you usually get the PDF with it, but it's been recently released. If you are a backer of conspiracy, the crowdfunding campaign, then you should get the PDF for free. Just so you are aware. And that's how I got it. I'm reading it and the beginning is very much. Here are the things that are like. Here's the major players, NPCs factions. Yeah, well and kind of NPCs cosmic core that's in. In the mix. And then it goes through a pretty long timeline. So it goes through each one and what, who they are, what they're doing, what their objectives are. Then there's a small brief timeline. I haven't even gotten to the mission brief yet and where. [00:02:41] Speaker A: So is it like 1 million BC? What is YOG Sosoft doing? [00:02:44] Speaker B: Not. No. Is it that Kind of thing. No, but it is. [00:02:48] Speaker A: That'd be a cool timeline. [00:02:49] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, and it's. Yeah. I don't want to give too many spoilers. I think the Dr. I mean, even if you pulled up the drive thru description, what it says is it's December 2001. As it like opens up the link. The convulsions of America's post 911 war on terror have only begun. But worst threats still lurk of the shadows. Delta Green knows the gruesome ritualistic killing of Randall TBS outside Phoenix, Arizona bears unwelcome resemblances to a mass murder in 94 Chicago. Delta Green already has a suspect in mind, but the agents are on the ground only a few hours. When things get worse. The suspect reappears only to destroy himself in a deadly explosion. The murdered victim speaks with the voice of a God. A trail of carnage leads across the country. It draws the agents inexorably to the city where the towers fell, the city where cruel powers converge to New York, the city Delta Green has learned to fear. [00:03:51] Speaker A: Interesting. [00:03:52] Speaker B: Yeah. When Delta Green stumbles into a clash between the great old ones themselves, can the agents hope to survive? [00:03:59] Speaker A: Oh, cool. [00:04:00] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:04:00] Speaker A: There's the holy war angle. [00:04:01] Speaker B: That is the holy war angle. So it's like, what are, what are these things doing? [00:04:08] Speaker A: And then for, for listeners who may not know the lore all that well, New York does is like thick with things going on in the world of Delta Green throughout the years. [00:04:18] Speaker B: Right. [00:04:20] Speaker A: All kinds of stuff happens there. [00:04:21] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:04:22] Speaker A: Cool. That's pretty cool. [00:04:23] Speaker B: Yeah. So I started reading it, I think because of the. It's across the country and the trail of carnage and keeping track of all that is probably where like, it gets. You know, a handler has to be able to come up with things pretty much on the fly and roll with it, but I don't know. We'll see. [00:04:44] Speaker A: I would call that lots of moving parts. [00:04:46] Speaker B: Yes, I would say so. [00:04:47] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. Tracking, timing, converging, diverging, all that kind of stuff. [00:04:53] Speaker B: Right, right. [00:04:54] Speaker A: Cool. And your own Delta Green game. [00:04:57] Speaker B: We were going to play today, but I put it off just because we've had to move it off the regularly scheduled program, so. [00:05:06] Speaker A: Oh, that's right. [00:05:07] Speaker B: Move up the day or slide the day. And I'm like, you know what? Let's just wait. So there's going to be a pretty big gap from the last session to [00:05:16] Speaker A: the next, like three weeks or whatever. [00:05:17] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's that. I think that is all I have been involved in. [00:05:29] Speaker A: Cool. [00:05:29] Speaker B: You. [00:05:31] Speaker A: I keep meaning to get back into my Ian Fleming reading, but I haven't yet. Something distracted me. I, I vasilite to go back and forth when I'm, you know, in my too precious listening time. I go back and forth between audiobooks and podcasts and, you know, different things, you know, that I'm kind of doing, just tuning into and I get on a kick on something and I'll just listen to it for a long time, whether it's a specific podcast or whatever. So when I fall off the wagon on an audio book, I will often put it down for months and then. So I'm in that boat right now with, with the Bond stuff. But I will say one of the things I picked up, you know, I think a podcast you and I both enjoy a lot. The rest is classified. They've been cranking out content lately and a lot of it is pretty topical around like what's happening in Iran and the Middle East. But they also did a four part series, Sean, on the Battle of Mogadishu. So the Black Hawk down scenario, if you've read the book or seen them, pretty amazing Ridley Scott movie. They go into great detail on this podcast and there's some really cool tie ins to kind of the, the world of espionage and local, local resources and how you can and cannot trust the intelligence they're providing and some of the reasons why the intelligence might be bad. And you know, everything from like when they're, when they're trying to hit, I forget, I forget if the guy's name is ID or something like that. The, the warlord they're trying to hit. They're trying to get his lieutenants right in that, in that raid in downtown Mogadishu. That intel's good, but there's some intel before that that's bad. They just go into a great kind of breakdown of your informant might be lying to you, they might simply be wrong, or the intel might be 1 hour old and it's no good anymore. [00:07:10] Speaker B: Right. [00:07:10] Speaker A: In a situation like that. So it's just a really cool breakdown of the entire operation that goes terribly wrong. Right. But I highly recommend it for folks who are, who are either fans of the movie or just, you know, think that's a kind of an interesting episode in American sort of, you know, operations and foreign policy type of thing. They go into a great treatise on how it affects American foreign policy for the rest of the next like 10 to 15 years or 20 years where there's a number of situations where the US normally would have gotten involved around the globe. And they don't do it, especially in Africa. Like, Rwanda is the first one they point to where it happens only a year later, where there's this genocide in Rwanda and the White House has no stomach for sending in Delta Force and the Rangers and all the rest like they did in Mogadishu. So it's just. It's a really good listen. And I didn't realize there's a Netflix series like a documentary. I shouldn't say there's a series. I think it's a single episode documentary. I need to check that out. Have you seen that? [00:08:06] Speaker B: I have. [00:08:07] Speaker A: How is it? [00:08:08] Speaker B: It's bonkers. Yeah, it's pretty bonkers. [00:08:12] Speaker A: The whole thing is bonkers. Yeah. [00:08:13] Speaker B: I read Blackhawk Down. [00:08:15] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:08:16] Speaker B: Way back in the day. It's been a while. But read it. And then I saw that come. Then I watched. I can't remember if I watched the movie first or the. The Ridley Scott movie, but there I've watched that. I've read the book. And then I. The. The documentary I watched as well, because I wanted to find it. I wanted to look at the documentary because obviously with movie kind of conversions can get a little kooky. So. [00:08:43] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, it'll gloss over some things. They only have something. They only have two hours of screen time, typically, and all that stuff. Right. The other part that I found really, really interesting, that does not come through in the movie. And I have not read the book, so this was news to me was this. Was this, I think, the seventh operation like this, where basically US Special Forces had developed this, you know, this playbook of a helicopter and fast rope in. They get the target, they do what they need to do, and they use a convoy, a. A rapid force to get in and out so they can extract them quickly. Right. They've done this six times already. By the time they try to hit these guys or they try to capture these guys in downtown Mogadishu and the Somalis, the warlords, it's a specific clan is 100% ready for them. So in the, in the movie, you see the kid with the cell phone, you see the burning tires. All of that is to set up to say as soon as those. They see choppers, they alert the whole city, all of everyone, all the, you know, all the. All, at least all the militia, basically. So not only that, Sean, and you, you know, because you. You've read it and seen the. Seen the Netflix thing, but they have buried or hidden caches of RPGs on rooftops and all over the place, on the routes. They think they'll use. So they're like it's a trap basically. They're totally ready for it when, when they start executing the mission. So it's, it's really interesting stuff. [00:10:03] Speaker B: Yeah, it's. Some of those ops are just insane. Just insane. I could not imagine being in such a hot box. [00:10:16] Speaker A: Oh yeah, man, it's. Yeah, they, and they, and they go into that as well where you know, the poor guys would go on foot from the site where they fast rope in and where the, you know, the convoy then takes off because they've got the, you know, excuse me. The, the first Blackhawk helicopter goes down and they try to redirect the convoy to it, right. To either pick up survivors or protect the. Protect the dead or whatever. And then this doesn't come through in the movie either. When they send the force from the hotel. There's 60 to 80 guys on foot who go through the city to get to the Blackhawk site and they're, they're the ones who make it and they're the ones who get trapped overnight in that firefight where they take over the civilians homes and all that sort of stuff. Right? It's, it is wild. They are in 16, 16 hours of. Of combat. [00:11:01] Speaker B: Like it's. [00:11:02] Speaker A: It's wild what happens. So what I'm looking forward to is they give the same treatment to like the Maduro extraction recently. So I think there's, there's some good episodes that they've dropped recently around some of the current operations and that sort of thing. So I'm looking forward to listening to that stuff. Other things I've just had my head in, you know. Oh, I know what, I know what I wanted to mention. I've been listening to this, this crappy old podcast go back, it's called so, so when you dropped, when you dropped the. The Last call in show, something was striking me about who's his write in that I think we missed. Oh yeah. So and we talked before the show about. Because it, because you know, for, for regular listeners here we, we know who's pretty well and I think he mentioned prior to the show or prior to even writing in, hey maybe you could spend a little bit more time on. On the home scenes kind of thing. Right? And then you and I talked about it and then during the show, this is the episode that dropped just last Wednesday, you know, early July. What would that have been? What Wednesday would that have been, Sean? The eighth show that dropped on July 8th. I think we. I read his write in and both of us kind of missed the point just a little bit. What Huss actually says is I'd like to hear some vignettes for home scenes. And what you and I. Or at least I was thinking I shouldn't speak for you. I was thinking he wants a deeper treatment. Like take a whole episode and do just a breakdown of a home scene. And the two of us were like, we've kind of already talked about it and provided our perspectives, but when I re. Listen to it, he's asking for us to do a vignette to show some of the. Showcase. Some of the things we talked about in the Downward spiral episode that we did. Just thought I'd raise it up so that you and I can put some more thought towards it, that's all. [00:12:49] Speaker B: And. [00:12:49] Speaker A: Sorry, whose. If we misinterpreted what you were asking in your. In your write in. [00:12:53] Speaker B: These guys don't listen. [00:12:59] Speaker A: Yes. Yes. So the. Here's the other thing that I heard in that episode when I. When I listened. When I listen to it or re. Listen to it or whatever you mention in your home game, this thing that gets loose and the. The agents end up using a vehicle to try and smash it and run it over. Right. There are actually rules for that. Did you use them? [00:13:19] Speaker B: There is, I think. I think so. I think there was something about. I don't remember if I use them. [00:13:26] Speaker A: They're kind of. They're kind of cool. [00:13:28] Speaker B: Yeah. I. I don't remember if I used them by the book. By. No, probably not. [00:13:33] Speaker A: Yeah. I don't know if we talked about them before when we. When we went into the mechanics, but it's basically kind of a D6 or a 2D6 if it's like low speed kind of thing. But then. Then it starts going like the hit point value of the vehicle. So the size of the vehicle divided by two is the. Is the lethality rating up to 30. [00:13:50] Speaker B: So it's. [00:13:51] Speaker A: You know, and. And as folks will know if they know the game, like, even. Even if you don't make the lethality rating, you're still doing 2d10 damage kind of thing. So you could do significant damage to the vehicle. It's kind of cool. [00:14:02] Speaker B: Yeah, I was doing it. I think I was doing at least two. Either 2D6 or 1D12. Like, it was just. [00:14:08] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:14:08] Speaker B: Yeah. So I didn't nerf it much, but I did not. Look, I don't know if I looked up the rules and I don't. It might have been one of those situations where I started. I'm like, I don't know if they've got ramming damage from a vehicle. That's. All right, fine. [00:14:22] Speaker A: Yeah, they do. [00:14:23] Speaker B: Yeah, they do. [00:14:24] Speaker A: Turns out. [00:14:24] Speaker B: And I made a. I think I made a judgment call then during the combat, somebody might have looked it up and we weren't that entirely off. [00:14:33] Speaker A: There you go. [00:14:33] Speaker B: And then we cool, we finished it. But yeah, I think that's how it worked. [00:14:38] Speaker A: Other than that, I think I'll save. I've been thinking a lot about Delta Green this week, and I, I. But I want to save it for what our main topic is, because I think it fits squarely into some of that stuff. So that's all I got. [00:14:49] Speaker B: All right, Sit wrap. Yeah, let's get to sit. Give me the sit rep. I'll put a link to Holy War that I have and started reading into sitrep. So if you're interested in going to purchase that or look at it, there'll be a link in the show Notes. Excuse me, but Harrigan has something that he wanted to bring to our attention. [00:15:14] Speaker A: I do. I'm trying to find the actual link. Maybe I'll just wing it here. There is, and I think this is in the Delta Green Reddit community, if you know that that subreddit there is a user who is running what's called a relay writing jam. So, Sean, you'll provide the link to the Reddit thread, right? Let me open it up briefly here. What I'm trying to get is the guy's name. [00:15:39] Speaker B: It's Nathan, Class 6. Nathan, Class 99. [00:15:44] Speaker A: Thanks, man. [00:15:45] Speaker B: So makes me wonder what happened to Nathan, Class 98, 96. [00:15:53] Speaker A: So Nathan is basically, it's kind of like a shotgun scenario where I think they, they use like a Google Docs platform to, you know, you submit to an, to an email address and people, people submit their Google Docs in the end for the competition or the, you know, the judging kind of thing. But get this. So this is the part that's a little bit different here. The relay writing jam. I believe what they're doing this time is you pick a location. You know, it may even be like your hometown or something like that. [00:16:22] Speaker B: That's the prompt for this? [00:16:23] Speaker A: Yeah, you write a prompt and the prompt is going to be something that other people write a full adventure on. So you do two parts for the relay writing part is create a prompt from a location that you know well, your hometown kind of thing. So you provide some, like, locations, some ideas for things that might happen, and you submit that and then you pick up someone else's prompt and and you write, like, a scenario around it. So it's kind of. It's kind of cool. It's kind of cool. Have you seen this before? [00:16:52] Speaker B: I have not seen it before. And I was wondering what the whole. The whole prompt thing was, but I'm reading it now, and it's like, submit a teaser based on this year's prompt. This year's prompt is something from your hometown. And then the second step is write a scenario based on someone else's randomly assigned teaser. And then. [00:17:12] Speaker A: Randomly assigned. [00:17:13] Speaker B: Yeah, and. [00:17:14] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:17:14] Speaker B: And then. So that's a you luck of the dice or. Ooh, that's no bueno. Yeah, Yeah. [00:17:26] Speaker A: I like. I really like the idea of the hometown thing, though. Like, I like. I like that a lot. Come up with a maybe. It depends on where you grew up. My hometown is like, I got, like, many ideas, one of which we'll talk about later in the show. Anyway, you'll put, You'll, You'll, you'll, you'll share the link. It's, you know, for those who are the creatives in the audience who are wanting to, you know, hone your chops in writing these little scenarios, there's, I guess, throughout the year. Shmer. We've run across, like, three or four of these now, right? [00:17:57] Speaker B: Yeah. You could be writing for Delta Green, like, throughout a year. For sure. [00:18:03] Speaker A: Yes. Yes, for sure. For sure. I think that's all we had for siprep, right? [00:18:08] Speaker B: It is, yes. [00:18:09] Speaker A: Do we have any encrypted comms? [00:18:11] Speaker B: I checked voicemail. I checked email. I don't believe. So if you have written in or phoned in or sent a smoke signal and we're not receiving it, let us know. Try, try again. The same chat. [00:18:26] Speaker A: Well, there's the call. There's the people know, you know, our handles on discord for those who are a little closer to us. [00:18:33] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:18:34] Speaker A: Or there's an email address, right? [00:18:35] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:18:37] Speaker A: Try again, is what you're saying, because we did have one situation where someone wrote it and we didn't get it for months, so. [00:18:42] Speaker B: Right. Otherwise, let's. All right, get into the mission brief. [00:18:48] Speaker A: Have a seat. Let's get on with the mission brief. [00:18:52] Speaker B: All right, so this one kind of touches on what hoos had asked and posed, which was, we have the working title as three things you'd do but haven't yet in Delta Green. In other words, given the season and everything we've covered, are there any newfound epiphanies we would have stumbled across or reconsidered as we. That, you know, in our Own games, I guess, for the. For the most part. [00:19:30] Speaker A: Right. So separate from. It was the same write in, but I think separate from who's saying maybe we could see a vignette on the home scenes. He also said, what's changed in your perspective? What have you learned? Etc. Right. In. In the deep dive. And. [00:19:44] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:19:45] Speaker A: And not to, not to harp too much or drill too much on the, on the right in that. Who's put in there? But this was the whole thing where he's like, man, I like the deep treatment you gave it. I'd love to see a deeper treatment for a lot of different games kind of thing. Right. To which I, I think we both said, yeah, awesome, and then balked by saying, I don't have time to do that for every game. Bottom line is you've had this idea on the board for a while of like, what'd you call it, like, three things you want to do but haven't done yet type of thing. [00:20:11] Speaker B: Right. [00:20:12] Speaker A: So what are. What are three things that still are interesting to us that we haven't experienced at the table yet or haven't been able to execute or whatever? Right. [00:20:19] Speaker B: Play in a Delta Green game. [00:20:21] Speaker A: You haven't played him one run a Delta Green game? [00:20:24] Speaker B: No, I have, I think, but I don't get. I don't play very often. Like, comparatively speaking, it's not. So we. [00:20:30] Speaker A: Maybe, maybe we can address that, but we'll. We'll talk about that. [00:20:33] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:20:33] Speaker A: How do you want to start this? You want to trade off? 1, 1, 1, 1. You want me to do all three? You want to do all three of yours? What do you want to do? [00:20:39] Speaker B: We could trade off and then. And discuss each other's. I only. I have two that are blatantly in my face. [00:20:47] Speaker A: So Sean and I have not shared what these are with each other. [00:20:50] Speaker B: We have not. [00:20:51] Speaker A: I believe one of ours will be the same. [00:20:54] Speaker B: He does. [00:20:55] Speaker A: I do. So it's a bet. I'll bet you lunch. [00:20:59] Speaker B: Harrigan posed that before we hit record. I know I have one that's probably the same for both of us. [00:21:04] Speaker A: And I see when I see you in October and we have our traditional game, pre game hole lunch. [00:21:09] Speaker B: Yes. [00:21:09] Speaker A: The day that I arrive, I'll buy lunch. Or you'll buy lunch. [00:21:13] Speaker B: If I'm right. The stakes on this thing. Okay. [00:21:16] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. [00:21:17] Speaker B: All right. [00:21:17] Speaker A: That little cafe we always go to. [00:21:18] Speaker B: Okay, fair enough. I'm sure I'm going to guess it's. I know which one it is, too. [00:21:24] Speaker A: Okay, well, if you start well, we can get it out of the way. Or we. Or you can. [00:21:28] Speaker B: You want me to get it out of the way? And guess what I think it is. I think it's implementing the Outlaws in the program together. [00:21:39] Speaker A: Yes, yes. What you call two shades of Delta green. [00:21:43] Speaker B: I do call that two shades of Delta. [00:21:45] Speaker A: So why don't you explain? Go. Go on. And that is the one that we share. [00:21:48] Speaker B: Yeah. Obviously it has to take part during a certain era of the game, and that is right around 2000, I think. Right. 2000. Ish. 2010. [00:22:02] Speaker A: 2001. [00:22:03] Speaker B: 2001. Yeah. Early years. The reason we kind of go 2000, 2001, because it's not. There are scenarios that are placed during that year. Ish. Timeframe. And it isn't it. I don't think it matters because there's this gray area of whether the program is actually known or fully baked as much as it is in like 2015 or, you know, modern day 2026. But if you place it right around that time when the program starts to become more official within the US Government and some resources are actually dedicated to that, and then they either find out about the Outlaws or realize that there are individuals that have been part of the program when it was defunded and basically shut down back in the late 60s. The individuals, the outlaws they become. Or the Cowboys. And then the Outlaws. [00:23:05] Speaker A: Yeah, they're the Cowboys. [00:23:06] Speaker B: Then they're the Cowboys. Which is the cell. Right, the cell makeup. So a cell, B cell. [00:23:12] Speaker A: I think that is actually the outlaws in the 90s. [00:23:16] Speaker B: Correct? Yes. Yes. Yeah. So we're kind of talking about three kind of eras. But going to. What Harrigan's asking is to flesh this out is. Which is funny because Holy War takes place in 2001. Right. It's right after 9, 11. [00:23:34] Speaker A: I don't want to call it ground zero for obvious reasons because there's some connotations to that in 2001, but. [00:23:41] Speaker B: Right. [00:23:41] Speaker A: It is. It is ground zero for the program schism. Kind of like now there's two of them. Like, that is. That is when it happens, you know, in that 2000, 2001 time frame. [00:23:51] Speaker B: And there's two NPCs in Holy War that are referred to as members of C Cell. And I don't think in the beginning I haven't read. So as of this recording right now, I'm only, I don't know, maybe 10 pages in 20, 18 pages in, so cut me some slack if it comes up later. But they reference two NPCs that their code names start with the C and they Talk. They don't say they are members of C Cell. You just have to understand that they are or were. [00:24:28] Speaker A: Yeah, well, that's the question. [00:24:30] Speaker B: Well, right. And I know they come in. I don't know if later in the scenario they flesh that out a little bit more. Talk about it. In the beginning of the scenario, they also talk about to run this, you will need the Handler's Guide, and potentially you could run and additional material through the conspiracy millennium, I think is another one, if I'm not mistaken, that's coming out and then another book that's not yet out. So reference is like two reference books. Yeah. That are coming out because those reference books are going to cover factions which play a role in this and a couple other things. So anyways, that's why I'm like, implementing Outlaws versus the program. So when I get to the briefing, I'm interested to find out who the briefing is for. [00:25:22] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:25:23] Speaker B: I don't know if I should owe you, since I guessed what it would probably be. [00:25:28] Speaker A: Fine, [00:25:31] Speaker B: we'll go dutch. You could buy your own and I will buy mine. [00:25:34] Speaker A: I'll buy yours, you buy mine. [00:25:35] Speaker B: Yeah. Right. Yeah. So we'll do that. [00:25:39] Speaker A: Fair? [00:25:40] Speaker B: Yeah, fair. So I think that's a big one. Yeah. [00:25:43] Speaker A: Well, what. What do you want to do with it that you haven't been able to do so far? Like, what's. What is the interesting part of this that makes you put it on this list and say, this is something I want to explore? [00:25:54] Speaker B: I've been thinking about this, obviously, a little bit recently, and I've done that with the possible landscapes. I've implemented it. And you and I have talked about it, about, you know, this is what I would do. [00:26:06] Speaker A: Yeah, we've talked about it a lot, actually. [00:26:07] Speaker B: Yeah. It's funny because I'll think of something. And here I'm going to go, oh, I would totally not do that. I would do that. I would do it this way. And this is why. And then it makes more sense. And I go, okay. But I am also fearful that it takes the main scenario and, like, sidetracks it where the characters are. Oh, we have to go and figure this out. Now we're being solicited by this programmer telling us we're not really part of Delta Green this whole time. [00:26:40] Speaker A: Yeah, it's a whole focus. Right. [00:26:42] Speaker B: Who have we been a part of now? I got to go and find out. Let's go research. Well, wait a minute. Hold on a second. What about the thing that's, like, happening? [00:26:49] Speaker A: You're. Yeah. You're on the. You're on the job already. [00:26:52] Speaker B: Right. So I'm a little nervous about that. So that's why I'm more interested right now in creating. Literally I want to create a campaign or the world of Delta Green in my own. In my own vision again. But I would like to do a home brew setting called Two Shades of Green. And it's not to say that I wouldn't use scenarios, but I would want some of that interfaction play or dynamic. So there's times when we've talked about, okay, you're an outlaw who joins the program. You're a person in the program who was an outlaw, who's working for the Outlaws as an agent kind of thing. [00:27:39] Speaker A: Right. There's a double agent angle here. There's all that stuff, right? [00:27:43] Speaker B: Yes. Yeah. That's where I would like to see things. [00:27:50] Speaker A: We are largely of the same mind and you know, I think maybe it hasn't come across in this podcast, but from my early days as a role player, when I ran a bunch of TSR modules back in, you know, 83, 84, 85, 86 kind of kind of time frame, I went 20 or 30 years without running prepared materials like written modules. But you would call pre published modules [00:28:13] Speaker B: back in the day. [00:28:15] Speaker A: Remember that? [00:28:16] Speaker B: Yes, I do remember that. [00:28:17] Speaker A: Gaming and bs. [00:28:18] Speaker B: Thank you for bringing it up and getting. So the joke is Brett and I on gaming and BS would say, hey, why don't you run a pre published module? And then we got raked over the coals for using the term pre published versus just publishing published and pre or [00:28:33] Speaker A: pre written or whatever. [00:28:35] Speaker B: Pre written? [00:28:35] Speaker A: Yes. [00:28:36] Speaker B: Like how do you pre write? Yes. [00:28:39] Speaker A: So to return to Delta Green here, I kind of retracted from like, like pulled myself out of like. I don't like a lot of written. A lot of written adventures, quite frankly. Right. Have trouble remembering all the details. Don't like where things go. Don't like the railroad part of those modules. I mean, I had a great time running some of that stuff, but I spent many years developing my own content. [00:29:01] Speaker B: Right. [00:29:01] Speaker A: The whole just house, house campaign, whatever you want to call it. [00:29:04] Speaker B: Right. [00:29:04] Speaker A: The OSR turned me around on a lot of that by really incredible creatives in that space showing like, oh yeah, you think you're so good at writing adventure terror again, how about this? And I'm like, holy crap. The stuff that's been put out in the last 10 years or so on the OSR space kind of has brought me back around to oh no, I like published adventures just fine. So of these are super Cool. And you just got to integrate them kind of thing. When I turn to sci fi mysteries, Delta Green horror, I. I find them back in that space where I kind of want to. I want to write it. I want to be in control of. Of like what's happening and the flow and the. All that stuff. Otherwise you have to find for the reasons you just pointed out, like, I don't know if those published adventures are out there, operas are out there that involve these components of the two parts of the program interacting in a way that you and I are. Think would be interesting. Right? So I'm in the same. Exactly the same boat where I'm like, I think you got to. You need to. I need to write this. I need to like, lay it out myself. And it gets back to something we talked about, I think in maybe the faction episode, which is this kind of breadcrumb trail so that you introduce these things gradually. You're not doing the, you know, T bone by a. By a bus. Now you got to deal with this other issue which protect. Protects against the issue you just raised, which was they're already on a job, but if someone now is trying to recruit them somewhere else, that's going to distract them and like do the whole. Which if that's the. If. If you want that messiness, awesome. But if you don't want that messiness, be careful because introducing it too early without teasing it and without like, I don't know, preparing for the reveal will just be disruptive. And suddenly you're going to have like, the, the handler's going to be like, aren't you guys still working on the. On the job I sent you on kind of thing? Which might be a good thing to do, but it also might, it might completely like, upend what. What the team was working on and what the players are enjoying. Right? [00:30:55] Speaker B: Upend, man, I'm still having my buddy Joe that's like, well, if they've got it handled, we're done, right? Like, we're f. Like, why do they need us? Why don't we just stop? Like, oh, they've got it covered by. And I'm like, dude, what? You still don't get it? You know, just because the program's involved doesn't mean your character is like, I gotta can this. Because now, like, I was hired to do job and it's not that kind of game. [00:31:25] Speaker A: You're. [00:31:25] Speaker B: You've got a bigger, higher calling because you. [00:31:29] Speaker A: So, so you can picture though, with the players with the right mindset, you're, you know, you have to do the thing. [00:31:35] Speaker B: Right, Right. [00:31:36] Speaker A: And if you do have this thing that comes in from the side, up up upends your planning because people are like, do you know who you work for? You work for Majestic and you know, and they lay out all the, you know, how can you do this? You need to come over to our side. The right players will just bring that on board and say now I got both these things I have to worry about. [00:31:55] Speaker B: Right. [00:31:56] Speaker A: We got to get the thing and the. So the reason why this is on my list and maybe I don't think it tops the list, but it's got to be close for things that I want to do that I haven't done yet. I think this is an incredibly rich vein to mine from. From the. The double agent part of it where your handler is actually working for the Outlaws. So they are sending teams ahead of you to places and this will. That factors into some shotgun scenario ideas that I have and that sort of thing. So like I have not read an opera where you are like head to head with the program. Right, right. The. The Cowboy or the, you know, the Outlaws and the in the program kind of thing. So that's incredibly rich. But we talked about it before, like the whole like the opera might be to go and get the Outlaw and pick them up because they know some things and they want them to interrogate them. Like there's just so much you could get to, whether it's people who are inside the organization you don't know about that you're trying to root out or it is a long running brother own opera that Delta Green gets involved in at the very end and you don't understand it and you it up for them or you ruin it for them. Excuse my language. There's just so much, so many ways you could go. And I don't see even the operas that should have this stuff in there. It doesn't seem to be for the published stuff. So it seems to be something that the. The handler needs to take on themselves and develop their whole own sort of set of stakes and things that are happening and that kind of thing, including the whole. We talked about it before. The shared green boxes that they both know about the shared assets. So when you go to see the museum person who's an expert in the field, they also work with the Cowboys and they don't know the difference or the. With the. With the Outlaws, I should say. Right, right. There's just so much you can do. [00:33:41] Speaker B: Yeah, I agree. Jeff, as soon as he was approached, he's like, we gotta leave. We gotta get out of here. They're gonna. They're gonna come in and they're gonna whack us. They're like, we're done. He's like, we. We gotta find another place. The other player character is like, what are you talking about? Why? What's the big deal? And. But. And I don't know if Jeff is privy as educated himself on the dynamics. And so he kind of knows he. Whether he has or not, he's playing it close to the chest and just doing it from a character perspective. Like, we need to get out of here because. Yeah, yeah, they think we're compromised or what have you. It's going to be bad news and they're just going to wipe us off the face of the earth, which leads them to take their, like, go leave the hotel, get in a car. Like, what car do you have? Like, we're going to ditch the car. We need a new car. Where to get the new car? We go to the airport, we steal a car. Like, it's just. And then the whole vignette of trying to kind of scrub their tail, if you will, from this. [00:34:54] Speaker A: That's awesome. That's the game. [00:34:55] Speaker B: Yeah. It's kind of interesting that way. And we'll see if it works and how that dynamic is going to be. Because one of the things I had thought about. I don't know if this is going to be a spoiler because I may not implement it, and I don't know how much of the show Jeff listens to, but, you know, one of the things I have to do is I gotta get specifically, like, Joe to get out of the mind frame that this is just a job. And then once. Well, you know, if they've got the beat, you know, the A team coming in, I'm gonna. I'm done. Like, okay, hey, here you go. Here's. I'll hand it off to you. Like, no, dude. So I'm thinking about, you know, what happens when a bond, like, oop, yeah, that bond's gone. They're gone. Like, they're gone. You. The obit hits your phone, somebody texts you, right? Like, that's. And you know, with that is. It's sent from the guy who met with you to let you know that that has occurred or whatever, to even amp it up some way or somehow to tie it into things where it's now it's like even more of a personal component. So, you know, I'm playing with guys that have. In impossible landscapes, there's a 20 year jump. And they've been on three ops even before Impossible Landscapes, and none of them know each other, but they. But that's the way it is. Like, you know what I'm saying, Harrigan? It's like, so have you guys ever mentioned to each other who you actually are and work for or where you come from? No. No. So in four years on, these three apps that have occurred that make you go bonkers, You've never been in a car that have brought up a conversation. [00:36:41] Speaker A: No. Do any of them have bonds with each other? [00:36:45] Speaker B: They don't. And I should have done that. [00:36:49] Speaker A: Remember, you got. There's that rule that says when certain things happen. [00:36:52] Speaker B: Yes. [00:36:52] Speaker A: You have to roll to avoid. Otherwise, you just get the bond. Right. [00:36:56] Speaker B: Yeah, but they would still go. But we haven't talked about it. Right. Jeff and Joe's characters were on a similar operation. They just didn't know each other ever. Like, Joe was the helicopter pilot assigned. Right. And Jeff was on the mission as a soldier, and it went sideways. And that could have came up in a conversation where they were like, oh, you know, oh, you were in the military. Yeah. Where'd you serve? Here. Did you ever make it over to here? Yeah, it happens all the time in war stories with speaking firsthand. [00:37:32] Speaker A: But. [00:37:33] Speaker B: But in the game. No, no, no, I'll never bring it up. I'm like, come on. [00:37:40] Speaker A: Part of that, I think, comes from the whole. The game time. Like your energy is spent on the operations, on the operas. [00:37:47] Speaker B: Right. [00:37:48] Speaker A: It's a further extrapolation of what we. You and I have complained about when. And we're both guilty of it as well, when you don't focus enough on the cleanup phase as well. [00:37:57] Speaker B: Right. [00:37:57] Speaker A: Like, it's. It's much more about, like, investigation, action, resolution. Like, get the. Get the shit done. Get the thing done. Right. [00:38:03] Speaker B: You go in the dungeon, you knock down the doors, you. You open the door, you search the room, you see the gold, you grab the gold, you get a monster, you kill the monster, you go back and you level up. [00:38:14] Speaker A: Gtfo, right? [00:38:16] Speaker B: That's Delta green. Get the debris, you know, get the briefing. Yeah. [00:38:20] Speaker A: Things like Impossible Landscapes, can they. They. They facilitate that in some ways that maybe aren't the best because there's this, like, time jump and whatnot. So you can easily leave behind what happened because time has passed in the game. [00:38:34] Speaker B: Right. [00:38:34] Speaker A: As opposed to, did people see us coming out of that building when we lit it on fire? And do we have to go make sure they didn't see too much? Like, all those. All the things because there's. It's on that like time scale where it's like moving on now it's this date. And when do they have time to do what you're talking about, which is sit down and share war stories and bond with each other and all that kind of stuff. Right. [00:38:55] Speaker B: I have to imagine that the next edition, which they are play testing as my understanding you and I got wind of that. So in case anybody wants to know [00:39:06] Speaker A: the next edition of the game. [00:39:08] Speaker B: Right. I would imagine somewhere in the mix there is a vignette component. Savage Worlds had. Interludes is what they're called. That those will inevitably play a role. So when you're driving three hours into the freaking foothills of bfe. [00:39:28] Speaker A: Correct. [00:39:29] Speaker B: You guys are quiet for an entire two and a half hours. [00:39:33] Speaker A: So not between operas. During the opera, there are these moments of like character development in, you know, connection. I'm with you. That. That would be. You know, we don't need a new version of the game to do that. We can. No implement that. [00:39:44] Speaker B: We don't. Right. But you could do that. You could do. You could use the Savage Worlds little nuance where I think it's like Savage Worlds has a deck of cards in interludes. There is heart, spades, diamonds and clubs. The suits and based. You flip a card and based on the suit, it prompts you for. [00:40:03] Speaker A: Right. What's this little scene about? [00:40:05] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, tell them like something about your home life comes up. [00:40:09] Speaker A: What? Yeah. [00:40:09] Speaker B: What do you divulge? [00:40:10] Speaker A: I think that's a. Dude, that's a. That's a goldmine you just uncovered. There's would be awesome. [00:40:14] Speaker B: Dude, I'm. And that's what this game is over here. Harrigan. Finally. Just one though. Little small one Clunk. [00:40:21] Speaker A: There it is. Finally. The rest of it not so bound [00:40:27] Speaker B: up for quite some time. [00:40:29] Speaker A: Yes, that's right. You've been chewing coal for a while. [00:40:33] Speaker B: I have. [00:40:33] Speaker A: Oh, my God. [00:40:34] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:40:35] Speaker A: Last thing on this whole two shades of green thing, like just. There's just these threads that for me just naturally come out of it. Or like, for example, let's say things go south with you. You're a program agent and you have gotten burned. They are coming for you. The outlaws will pick you up. Like, they'll be like, hey, there's this other team over here. Like, there's so many ways to like, interleave these things and get them to work together. And, you know, the presumption I'm making this whole conversation is that you work for the program. That doesn't have to be True. Flip it. You're an outlaw the whole time. Right. And we've. We've talked about it before. Like, you may not even know there's a program. And in fact, you think they're just majestic still. You know, there. That whole. That whole angle. Right. So I've got, again, that gets to some of the things I'll talk about in a bit around some of my shotgun ideas, which are maybe the program's not as altruistic as you think it is. Right. Maybe there's some people inside the program who are getting to go on operas and do some things that maybe aren't that great. Right. So. So, Sean, what's your second of the three things you'd like to do in Delta Green that you haven't done yet? [00:41:45] Speaker B: Try to convey to the player or implement something that highlights their downward spiral of their sanity or humanity. So we brought up, I think, one example during a show where. Or somebody else did. I think actually in a letter that they wrote in on an encrypted comm. Where it was. They think they're married. They get the. At some point, the letter is, I wish you would stop. You know, we cut off ties. I wish you would stop writing or calling. But in the game, it's like the bond is on the sheet, it's listed, it's not severed. But they're not really. Like, they were divorced two or three years ago. [00:42:49] Speaker A: I think what you're referencing is the call that Anthony placed. Runeslinger had it. [00:42:54] Speaker B: Yes, that's right. [00:42:55] Speaker A: Situation when we said give us write in or call in with examples of your own home scenes that are. That explore some of these damaged relationships. Right. And he had the. He had the one where he went to his wife who was remarried, and he didn't. The character didn't have in. His character had, like, flowers and like, I know how to make it all better kind of thing. And the new husband answers the door and Anthony's character beat the crap out of him on the. On the porch. [00:43:21] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:43:22] Speaker A: And then you and. You and I had a whole discussion over whether. And I think, you know, looking back at that, I think Anthony was the player in that game, not the handler. Oh, I think. I think he played that character who did the front door knock sort of thing. You and I mused about what would it take for this reality shift that you just mentioned a minute ago, which is the whole, like, you think you're married, but you're not you. You know, in other words, in your mind. In your mind. I can also picture horrible things where you're like, I have to go. I have to go to Philadelphia because my daughter's in the gymnastics. Your daughter's dead, dude. She was killed in the car accident last year, and you don't have that. You were also. I love this. Actually, Sean, you were talking in the same episode about how people who struggle with this type of mental illness don't always know it. Some. You know, we've all got experience with people who have struggled in various ways right through our lives. And in some cases, you do get to a place where they know there's a problem, but they can't help it. They anyway, or they. They're trying to address it, but they can't. But there's also situations where it's so acute and so deep, you find yourself in Philadelphia at the gym and being like, what do you mean, my daughter's not on the team? [00:44:31] Speaker B: Right. [00:44:32] Speaker A: And they're like, oh, my. Oh, my God. You know, she died last year in the bus accident, you know, kind of thing. Right? Like, yeah, man. I mean, to take over here. Keep. Keep going. [00:44:41] Speaker B: No, that's. That's exactly it. [00:44:43] Speaker A: And. [00:44:43] Speaker B: And even at going into that gymnastics example that you mentioned, like, maybe that gymnastics event happens every year, and it happened to be, you know, the. The first thing that occurred after the daughter's death was this gymnastics event that they were both going to go to your, you know, father or mother that you were going to attend. And that, like, that's when your brain, like, your mental capacity is split, and every year you show up at that same event because it's like, in your mind on the calendar, and you go. And they're like, not on the team. And the coaches or the staff, when you walk in the room, everything just. Everybody looks and everything gets very awkward. [00:45:29] Speaker A: Mm. And the third time you do it, they might call the cops. Right? [00:45:33] Speaker B: Right. Yes. [00:45:34] Speaker A: Because you might be like, where's my daughter? You know, that kind of. [00:45:37] Speaker B: Right. Yeah, for sure. So those kind of examples. Examples I would like to implement, you know, and. And keeping track of, you know, we had talked about this also as, you know, having a spreadsheet of your. Your player characters, if you're the handler, and then writing down the events that are chipping away at them through a scenario and what that looks like, and if it's four or one or, you know, they brushed it onto a bond or they absorbed it or whatever, keeping track of those things that you can implement kind of borderline delusions into their lives in order to. [00:46:19] Speaker A: It. It makes it become more than numbers. Of just the Bond going down and the sanity going down. Like what happened? What. What is driving it? What's the result of that? And whether you use Sean's, your example of a spreadsheet just now, I think what I recommended earlier in the, in the season was like a little black book or a little, a little moleskin or you have le term, whatever. You have a book that is dedicated to the character's bonds. So you are literally, you have a compact version of the notes of what happened in the, in the interlude of the, like the downtime scenes. And you know, what, what the, what the. Projecting onto the Bond does like all that stuff in one spot as opposed to trying to find it throughout your notes. [00:47:03] Speaker B: Notes. [00:47:04] Speaker A: Especially if it's a long running campaign. Spreadsheet's great idea too, but I think crystallizing this information is important. [00:47:11] Speaker B: It's so great when in the game, I know in the rules it says you do it between sessions and during the quote unquote downtime. But I think it's fantastic if you can do it while the operation's happening and it's a phone call, an email, like especially in the modern day. Here's the thing. What I love. [00:47:33] Speaker A: Yeah. A text. [00:47:34] Speaker B: Yeah. I think one thing we talk about, we haven't really gone it. I mean we touched on the eras and when you want to place your game. But it's so. Me personally, I was like, oh, I'm gonna, you know, when I talk to Jeff, getting Delta Green off the, off the ground, one of the questions that typically comes up when you're gonna do that is what era or what year are you gonna start kick this off in? And I think some people were like, oh, I'm going to kick this off in 1980. There's no technology, there's no Google Maps, there's no Internet. They're not going to be able to reference everything that's just at the tip of your finger. And you've got a portable computer the size of your palm or your hand and that can be a different dynamic. [00:48:16] Speaker A: You mean a Palm Pilot? Is that what you mean, a Palm Pilot? [00:48:18] Speaker B: Yes, yes. [00:48:19] Speaker A: Okay, that's what I thought. [00:48:20] Speaker B: Pilot. You know that's not fun, right? BlackBerry or whatever. It's a cellular phone from the 90s, right. The satellite phones. So there is that dynamic that's like, oh. Because I don't want them to just look up everything and have the answer because they have the Internet, which I think is a dynamic, which is fine. But there is also something to be said about if it's 20, 25 and you've got everything that everybody else has at their disposal, which means that they can be tracked, that they can have calls at any time and text messages and. You know, I have a. I had breakfast with a group that I grew up with last week, Harrigan. And one of them, I don't know if he works for the FBI. I know he works in law enforcement, justice department level stuff, and he's not a cop. He is a couple levels higher. He carries three cell phones. [00:49:14] Speaker A: That's. I've never seen someone do that. Two is pretty common, but two. [00:49:17] Speaker B: Yeah, three. Three cell phones. Apparently we were joking about it briefly, but get into his career or anything, but he's like, yeah, you're doing sensitive stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So one's all locked down and I'm sure. And then one is probably borderline and then one of his. One is his own. But going to. What I'm getting at is if you put it in the modern day. I mean, how many people always like if you don't have this in your hand? Some people, like, as I hold up my cell phone, they feel completely naked and like I am lost. I. I panic. And so if you put that into a Delta Green game, great. What happens when people start texting you on an operation, wondering where you are and oh, by the way, you cheated on me last time or whatever. I think you're cheating. So I'm going to enable location services and you do that out of trust. And then they're like. [00:50:09] Speaker A: Or you turn it off or you don't know. Right. And right. Speaking from personal family, like, why'd you turn it off, kid? Where'd you go? [00:50:18] Speaker B: Right, but I just said pull, kid, not Harrigan, right? [00:50:20] Speaker A: No, my wife and I have it on all the time, dude. We're good. [00:50:22] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. Same, same. And. But it's that question of like, why did you do that? And then where does that come from? And, and how it just propels things. [00:50:31] Speaker A: This is where you know, the, the, you know by now. It's a tired thing that we're saying where you open the front door and you walk outside. You're in the. You're in the world of Delta Green. As long if you add the underlying seething cosmic horror because you can take these moments from your own life. Like, my dude, my daughter will send me voicemails. I don't know why she. She does it, but she'll. We text all the time, but sometimes she'll take it upon herself to make a recording and she Sends me the voice recording. And you can just picture getting these things in the field when, you know, I had in. We couldn't return in time. And you get the. You get the, hey, dad, we had the event. I graduated and wish you were here. Right. And there's the bond going from seven to six. Right. Like what you're talking about. Yeah. We've all got real world experiences where we can apply that stuff where you. You wish something hadn't happened. And technology gives you, like, a quick, direct view into it in real time. Almost. Right. Sending a video from the event, you're missing kind of thing. [00:51:32] Speaker B: And I have to say, touching on this being My number, my 2 of 2 or 2 of 3, I don't know whether it is not even sanity pieces or components as much as it is the bonds. Because in the game, as we went through, many of us are, okay, I'm gonna whittle down my bond. And it's very much. Are you gonna project? Yes, I am. Okay, roll. Okay. I project four. I take one sanity. My bond goes down four, and I take a will hit. Okay, done. And then, of course, I think most of us are very much at some point in time incorporating that somehow. Maybe some are better than others. But to your point, Harrigan, like, there's. There's things in the book that says you can just wipe a bond gone. [00:52:23] Speaker A: Yes. [00:52:24] Speaker B: And I think that we're not leveraging that as much. And so I could just say, oh, well, Joe's character was in the military. It's 10 years forward. Do you still have those bonds? He would say, oh, I keep in touch with a couple of them. I could just say, no, you don't. They have all abandoned you just because 10 years have gone by. So erase that. Put a line through it. Right. Don't erase it. Put a line through it. And then tell me who you've recuperated as a bond in the last 10 years because his character became more of a hermit. [00:52:54] Speaker A: Dude. It can be much worse than that, too. [00:52:56] Speaker B: It can. Yes. [00:52:57] Speaker A: You can have a bond who has a substance abuse problem, and you have been their sponsor. Well, yeah, but you've been projecting onto that bond, so you've been lowering it. And then the handler. This is to your. To your point of the handler. There's more to it than just the projection and the one that helps you prevent insanity. There's more to it than that. Let's say you project and you take it from 10 down to 6, right. Over the course of the opera. And then there's a Downtime between operas and you choose to not interact with that bond to repair it or anything. So you don't see that person and then you do another opera and they draw. It gets lowered by another two points. The handler within there is within their right to say they OD'd. They're dead. You didn't look after them, you didn't check in, you didn't see them. They called you and you didn't call them back. So you didn't have to get the bond from 5 down to 0. You can use a luck roll. You can do all. You know, you can do all sorts of, like, you can get the dice out if you want to, but to your point, like. Like things can happen without just relying on. On the mechanics of the. The bonds coming down tied to the sanity. Right, Right. [00:54:03] Speaker B: So that's one thing I would say I would want to focus in on just a tad bit more. Those two were the big flagships for me. The third one I couldn't really come up with that I was thinking of, so. Because, you know, I'm doing everything else, you know, aok, I guess, you know. [00:54:22] Speaker A: Well, see, after I describe mic two and three, you see if anything else occurs to you. [00:54:26] Speaker B: Sure. [00:54:27] Speaker A: And, you know, the first one, you know, we both want to run something with a better interaction of the Classic program post 2001 and the Outlaws that are around them kind of thing. And you can even do some stuff in the 90s too, I guess. But we both want to do more with that. Right, Sean, you want to do more with. How would you describe your second one? What's the. What's the thumbnail? [00:54:47] Speaker B: I think it's. I think it's a. Well, I think there might be two things actually, so I might have three in the end. One would be maybe to. To you to look at those bonds a little closer, other than much more of a mechanical or home scene vignette piece. Right. Like something a little more. [00:55:04] Speaker A: And that connection between the characters you talked about and. [00:55:06] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, that. And then I would say the sanity or diminishment of a person's humanity and how that feels actually is facilitated from the game master. And because I think it's easy for the players to kind of sideswipe that a little bit. And then it's not. I don't blame them because it's just not a game that they're used to playing. So when you say, yeah, you hear something in your head like, I've had that. You know, we've had scenes like that where it's like, oh, the, the bag you talking to you. [00:55:40] Speaker A: Have you had a character in your current game hit a breaking point? [00:55:44] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. Joe's had a few. So, yeah. [00:55:48] Speaker A: And has he picked up disorders? [00:55:50] Speaker B: He does, but disorders are interesting. The answer is yes. And then, you know, there's the. Can you sleep? That's usually very much in the moment. But there's also like when they hit their breaking point again, it can re. Trigger the initial. [00:56:05] Speaker A: But what I'm getting at, it goes back to your, your, I guess, your second idea here. So your third idea overall. [00:56:13] Speaker B: Right. [00:56:13] Speaker A: But your second idea of the handler helping the piece. The players kind of explore what all this looks like. Right. Don't forget. And maybe you're already all over this. But when they get the disorder, they lose the motivation. Right. So there should be, there should be a very tangible thing on the character sheet that changes, that says, what's different now? You no longer have this motivation. So you're not going to alcohol, Alcoholics Anonymous anymore. You're not, you're not looking for your long lost brother anymore, all that stuff. So I think that that leans into what you're talking about, which is the handler saying, let me pick at your sheet for a minute. Hey, I see your sanity is down to 30 and you've hit your breaking point three times and you've lost these three motivations. You picked up these three disorders. Let's talk about how that's manifesting in the game because some players aren't gonna, they're not gonna dive into that. Right. You want the players that do, but some, some players just haven't played that way before. They just need a little bit of a hand, a hand up sort of thing. Okay, so all I asked you all that because I think it kind of flows into my second idea. Unlike you, I have not run the long game before, so I've only run the equivalent of one shots or one opera at a time. So I'm not. Never done a lot of home scene work. I've never done a lot of like slow, gradual decline, the downward spiral spiral that we talked about. So I don't have a ton to say about it today, but it's basically, I want to do a lot more with home scenes, a lot more with, with Bonds and, and how they get like rebuilt like I've never seen in action. Repairing your sanity either by going on the, on the road trip or the ski trip or going scuba diving, like all that stuff where you neglect some other responsibilities, but you help yourself out in some ways and I'm really interested in seeing how that plays out in the long term. And I'm a little troubled because quite frankly, play by Post, which I love, is so slow. I'll never get to this stuff. I mean, I'll. I'll get to it in the solo game that I'm playing. Playing in. We will do this stuff, but that might be next year. You know, it's like, it takes a while. So, you know, maybe our Thursday night crew needs to turn to this game at some point and do the long, the long version of it kind of thing. Right? Yeah. So I don't have a whole lot more to say other than I, I want. It ties into this slow slide and disintegration that we've always talked about. Everything that I've seen typically is a little more real time in terms of the impacts. Impossible Landscapes is maybe a little bit different because it's a lengthy, beefy campaign, so we got to see more of that. But I think we were both new enough to Delta Green at that point that we didn't explore all the, all the edges and angles that you and I have identified on this show that we want to. We want to get into. [00:58:54] Speaker B: Right, sure. [00:58:56] Speaker A: All right. So the long game is basically my, my second one. Anything you want to, you want to add to that or should I go on to my third? [00:59:01] Speaker B: No. And I would say with the long game specifically, obviously you can explore more in those things. But also with. I know you alluded to it, but even just increasing your skills. Right. Like, I'm going to go and take a college course. [00:59:15] Speaker A: Absolutely. [00:59:16] Speaker B: And you. There's a mechanic where you can increase a skill. You go to a college or whatever and take a course and then your bond goes down because you're spending too much time at. [00:59:27] Speaker A: But your, but your skills go up. [00:59:28] Speaker B: But your skills go up. Yeah. [00:59:29] Speaker A: Yeah. It's this decision making that the players have that is not immediately evident upon. Like when you sit down at a con and you, you play in a D. In a Delta Green game, you have no idea that any of that stuff is there. It's almost like playing in a Pendragon game at a con. It's like, man, you are seeing like the top inch of a very deep lake. [00:59:48] Speaker B: Yes, it is very. The DND if you only play a one shot in Pendragon where that's not the. Where it shines. Yeah. [00:59:57] Speaker A: And, you know, I don't know. I just. Those are the parts of the game that I haven't personally explored, so they are of great interest to me is what I would say. Okay, then you. Do you have a third, or should I just go for my third? [01:00:09] Speaker B: I think I'm pretty. I think those. [01:00:11] Speaker A: You tapped out. [01:00:12] Speaker B: I mean, I think it's the. The three. I. Oh, you. [01:00:15] Speaker A: You bifurcated the second one into two different. [01:00:17] Speaker B: I did. I did. That's right. [01:00:19] Speaker A: Okay. Oh, okay. You'll get points for that. Last one is easy for me to describe as well. And I've talked about it before. I want to write shotgun scenarios. [01:00:28] Speaker B: So. [01:00:28] Speaker A: And I have not done that yet. I had two ideas last year for the 2025 shotgun scenario contest. I came up this morning with two other ideas. So I've got. And a lot of that was based on, you know, just preparing for today. And quite frankly, the relay writing jam made me think about my hometown. And I'm like, I think I want to do more than just come up with the location and the kernel. I want to write an adventure based on this. These two locations that I. That are. That are in my hometown, basically Halifax. It wasn't as a very important military port and fort in the 18th and 19th centuries. And there are rumors of tunnels connecting fortifications all over the cities. And I've done work in these fortifications when I was an archaeologist there. So, you know, I've been in some pretty lonely, empty places exploring down with a. With a co worker trying to find if these tunnels were real or not. So there's a whole. Meant. There's like, the room. It's kind of like the Denver airport where there's rumors of, like, lizard. Lizard men living beneath the airport. If, you know. If you know those conspiracy theories. Halifax has a lot of. A lot of, like, lore about the connectivity between the forts where the British soldiers could run back and forth. And I mean, some of the forts are in the harbor and some are like the. The main. For on the land kind of thing. So there's some cool stuff I think I'm planning on doing with that. So. So all of that I think I'll translate into a couple of different shotgun scenarios. So I'm looking forward to that this coming year. I think it's in. Was it like October, November, time frame last year? [01:02:00] Speaker B: I can't remember, but I'll. [01:02:01] Speaker A: I'll look at it. [01:02:02] Speaker B: We have. We have steam tunnels. [01:02:05] Speaker A: Yeah, there you go. In Madison. [01:02:07] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah, steam tunnels. And then there's the. The rumored steam tunnel Bob. So steam tunnel Bob. I don't know if he exists or not. Some say he does, some say he doesn't, but they. He knew the steam tunnels so well that they would pay him or give him money, I believe. Steam tunnel Bob is a homeless gent, but they would pay him to change the light bulbs because he knew where everything was in the steam tunnels. But I don't. Who knows? I don't know. [01:02:38] Speaker A: That's. But. But there's the kind. There's your kernel, there's your location there. [01:02:42] Speaker B: Yeah. What lies. [01:02:44] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:02:45] Speaker B: In the depths. [01:02:47] Speaker A: Exactly. So, yeah, a couple of ideas have occurred, but the. The bottom line is I need to put pen to paper this time and actually get the submissions done. And I'll. I'll feel good about that. [01:02:58] Speaker B: I would like to as well. Although I'm not a big writer. I journal because I feel as though I. I don't know, know. It's kind of. [01:03:07] Speaker A: Shotguns are short though, man. Like 1500 words or whatever. Right? [01:03:09] Speaker B: Yeah. I think I would have to figure out how to not be as verbose and get some, you know, get to the. Get to the point. [01:03:16] Speaker A: You do have to get to the point. It's true. I have some ideas actually, even around formatting. So let's tie this all together and put a bow on top. I. I think the shotgun should be like bulleted text at the top. Like, what era is this? What part of Delta Green are you working for? Like three or four. Like, factual. Like, let's. Let's get this going and embed it. It's. It's 2002. You're working for the Outlaws. You're in. You're in D cell. You know, you know what I mean? That kind of thing. To. To ground it a bit more. Many of them seem to be written like, I don't know, you're some part of some Delta Green. I don't know what year it is and doesn't matter. Like, let's put some teeth in that [01:03:52] Speaker B: your briefing is in. You know, you're okay. Briefing. [01:03:56] Speaker A: Yep. [01:03:56] Speaker B: Done. Like, and then it goes. But to your point, I think that's. That's a great approach. So. [01:04:02] Speaker A: And you know, like the. I've talked. I've raved about them before. Rob Schwab does these, like, six page adventures for Shadow of a Demon Lord, for Shadow of the Weird wizard that are just. There's just enough on the page to like fire the imagination and like, oh, I know what I can do with that without him going into gory detail about everything. Right. I see the shotguns the same way. So you can picture the shotgun being like, this is your handler. Here's her name. Here's how she fits in. And like, last line in that paragraph would be like, by the way, she's an informant for the Outlaws. And then you just move on. Right. Like, the Handler picks that up and does what they want with it, tying it into the wider campaign, making that, ooh, this is a key feature of this mission now because you're going to run across another team while you're in the field, or they're like, oh, that's interesting. I'll just keep that in mind for the future. If she's the Handler again and they tell her certain things, the Outlaws find out about that. Like, this is where the spider web starts to, like, take shape. Right. Cool stuff, man. [01:05:00] Speaker B: Yeah. And there's things that you. And it's those things that a handler can reference in the Handler's Guide that they don't need to know all of the details. They just need to know that one bullet so that they can tie it back to the details. I think that's fantastic. [01:05:17] Speaker A: Yep, yep. So you just gotta be succinct about that stuff as well. Like, and let's. Let's say, for example, you can even get into the whole, like, if the players are going to use a vehicle to run over this thing. See the vehicle rules on page like that, kind of like, just make the right references and call outs. Anyway, I don't want to go into it any further. I just basically, I feel like I'm sitting on my butt with these ideas and I want to get them out there. Yeah, that's all I got, man. [01:05:45] Speaker B: Well, that's fantastic. So there you go. If you're gonna play my game, just can imagine what's coming. [01:05:52] Speaker A: Yeah. Yep. We'll see if your players listen to this. [01:05:55] Speaker B: Yeah, for sure. Well, thanks so much for tuning in to Go Bag. On behalf of my esteemed colleague Harrigan, I'm Sean. We'll catch you on the next one. See ya. This episode of Go Bag, produced with help from the following friendlies, field operatives, special agents and black ops directors. Joe Swick, Roger French, Merkle Froelich, Tony Sugarloaf, Baker, Polish Ogre hus, Carl Farty McMutterpants, Laramie Wall, Eileen Barnes, Hepto Lima, Aaron Railia, Wayne Peacock, Jeff Walken, Yerkis Rex, Eric Salzwedo, Phil McClory, Jason Hobbs, Michael Holland, Remy Billodeau, Crystal Egstad, Eric Avia Fornak, Brian Kurtz, Chad Glamen, Jim Ingram, Orchis Dorcas, Chris Shorb, Brian Rumble, Victor Wyatt, Kevin Keneally, Andy Hall, Jason Weitzel, Salt Hart. Tad Lechman, Nicholas Abruzzo, Matthew Catron, Curtis Takahashi, Angela Murray. Mr. White, 20. Jason Connerly, Shannon Olson, Ryan West, Kristen McLean, Larry Hollis, Len Seal. Fort Jake at Faded Quill. Great. Jake at Faded Quill. Gaming Test Trekkie. Tim Jensen. Nubis. Christopher Lang, Karla. Peter Skaines, Wendy Forcon, James Fraser, Ronald Durgible, Chaplain Grimaldis and Mark Mequez. Thank you, Operatives.